Light sensors cause religious row

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Story here.

Maybe they should just move?

Although I did come to the conclusion that perhaps a belief in cranial osteopathy and a belief in fairies were perhaps not unrelated

"THe only way people have a reasonable chance of getting along is by not demanding more rights than their neighbours get, in the name of an imaginary friend. "

Now that there, that really pisses me off! "Imaginary friend" eh? I'm not the one who tells my kids about some fat man in red who climbs down their chimney every Christmas Eve with presents - only to say 10 years later, "sorry darling, I made it all up so you could pretend that magic existed!"

Some people believe in ghosts. I don't. However I would never, ever tell those people that they are delusional. It's called being polite and respecting the beliefs of others. Alluding to God as an imaginary friend is both condescending and offensive.

Alluding to God as an imaginary friend in casual conversation is both condescending and offensive.

I only do it when debating things like this to make the point. And note that religious people are not above laughing at believers in fairies etc.

And personally I've never told a child that there was a man in red climbing down the chimney into their bedroom late at night. We enjoyed lots of fantasy stories (I liked to make them up with their help) but it was always clear that it was a fun game and not real.

Let's not forget the religious people who tell us that we can not be decent caring people because we are not one with their god or who tell us our kids will be tortured eternally. Not ALL religious do the latter, but there's an awful lot of the former about in so called polite society.

"Fairies would be part of the natural world, and one would expect to see evidence for that e.g. dead fairies in the compost. They are well within the realms of scientific study."

Poor ickle dread fairies! aaaww!! I'm not telling DD about this thread...

Thing is, a fairyist could easily squirm out of that one by saying that is not how fairy bodies decompose - they disperse into their constituent elements and are turned into atoms of oxygen and nitrogen in the air.

Yes, it's daft, but no more daft than most of the religious stuff I hear.

What happened to to religious tolerance?

The religious never got the hang of it I'm afraid.

onager, let's not forget the non-religious people who laugh at ALL fantasies! And let's face it, if you don't believe in God for logical reasons, then you're hardly likely to believe in fairies and ghosts are you?

Let's not forget the non-religious folk who openly take the piss out of religious folk, who talk down to them, laugh at them, question their sanity.

I've no time for people with blind faith. I tend to keep an open mind personally. I don't believe in UFOs, but if one landed in my back garden then I'd have to believe wouldn't I? Ditto with ghosts, fairies and such like. I DO believe in God, because I'd had that proof, undeniable proof. And I consider myself fairly intelligent, cynical, logical and so on.

Respect for each other includes respecting eath other's beliefs even if you don't share them.

UQD - there was an article a while ago about the daughter of Frances Griffiths, one of the Cottingley girls who took the fairy pictures. She claims that her mother admitted faking most of the pictures bar one. This one photo, which was different from the rest, she argued it's authenticity even throughout her old age. She told her daughter that the fairies were real and this one photo was genuine, and she regretted faking the rest because no-one would now, ever believe her.

I've seen the photo, it doesn't look particularly convincing, but as the daughter is so adament, I'm willing to keep an open mind on that score. Logically, they don't exist. But logic doesn't answer everything.

My problem with respecting other people's beliefs is that, at some point, the beliefs can become so bizarre that it becomes hugely difficult.

For example, some years ago a friend of mine went through something of a psychological breakdown and, in the process, became intensely paranoid. He truly believed that the CIA and MI5 was bugging his house and following his footsteps. I could not respect those beliefs, even though he was absolutely certain that they were true.

I saw that daughter, or perhaps the daughter of the other woman, on one of those daytime antiques shows recently, and she said that they were all fakes and that her mother admitted that.

Some atheists are rude of course, but I reckon in this country there'd be more christians telling non christians they are wrong than the other way around.

I never bring up religion in conversation, but maybe christians don't realise how often they do and how careful we are most of the time to avoid offending them.

I'd let religious people just get on with it, but for some that is not enough. They want to convert me, or just tell me I am not a good person because I don't have christ in me or they want to bring in rules to control my behaviour to bring it in line with what christ wants.

That applies to muslims etc too, but not so much in everyday life.

Or on the Antiques Roadshow possibly. Either way she did say they're all fakes.

No, the mother didn't admit that they were all fakes. She said there was one photo that wasn't. She was on Antiques Roadshow, I saw it, she got the camera valued, the one that took the pics. Her mother admitted faking all of them bar one, which the daughter treasures.

Could be that she just didn't want to let go of the whole illusion? I don't know.

onager, please do not tar us all with the same brush.

onager, please do not tar us all with the same brush.

I'm sure the daughter said they were all fakes. I wish I could find the episode.

They are fakes anyway. No doubt about it imho.

I agree Snorbs.

I have a friend who believes that he saw Sasquatch/Big Foot.

Do I believe he saw something or someone? Yes. Do I believe that he saw Sasquatch? No. I don't believe that it exists.

I've always found religious people to be the most tolerant of others religions.

I'd never make fun of someone else's religion. Can't understand why some feel it's OK to do this.

I've found the opposite to be true ILMD. I don't get many atheists coming to my door to tell me I'd better believe what they do or there'll be consequences,and that what I believe is wrong.

Re: the Cottingley fairies, I thought that Elsie admitted that they had faked all the pictures while Frances maintained that one of the pictures was real?

My view is that extraordinary claims (such as fairies at the bottom of the garden, or that I've got an invisible dragon called Bernard who lives up my chimney) require extraordinary evidence. Personally, I've yet to see any extraordinary evidence for the Cottingley fairies being real while there's a lot of good reasons to suspect that they're not.

A dedicated fairyist will surely construct elaborate scenarios around the story rather than be forced to admit that a life-long belief is not true. As in my example above.

This is true of all irrational beliefs, really. Giving up a long-held, seemingly solid belief in "the divine" is a hard thing to do. I've only ever met two people who have managed to do it. I certainly don't expect anybody to be persuaded by argument on the internet into doing so. As someone said once (Swift?) "You cannot reason a man out of a position he has not reasoned himself into in the first place." (And woman, ceteris paribus, natch.)

Whether that belief is in gods, ghosts, ghouls, fairies, demons, lizards, Scientology or invisible unicorns, once it takes hold it's hard to let go of it. Especially if it is providing comfort. I speak as a reformed former Christian.

I'm reading David Aaronovitch's book about conspiracy theories at the moment. It's fascinating the lengths people will go to in order to cling on to these ideas, because letting go of them is just too hard. They'll construct ever more convoluted rationales for holding them, and get deeper and deeper into fantasy and fictionalisation. Seems to have a lot in common with religion, myth, magic and superstition.

And I haven't found many atheists, though there will be exceptions obviously,demanding that gay people should not be allowed to marry because it goes against their beliefs.