Margaret Thatcher's in hospital,Is this the beginning of the end? How will you mark the day? Black arm band or party 7.

[Cowwomanmoo]

After looking at the news about Mr T I found my self on wikiquote.

Classic:

In an interview with George Negus for the Australian TV program 60 minutes, the following exchange occurred:
Negus: Why do people stop us in the street almost and tell us that Margaret Thatcher isn't just inflexible, she's not just single-minded, on occasions she't plain pig-headed and won't be told by anybody?
Thatcher: Would you tell me who has stopped you in the street and said that?
Negus: Ordinary Britons...
Thatcher: Where?
Negus: In conversation, in pubs...
Thatcher (interrupting): I thought you'd just come from Belize
Negus: Oh this is not the first time we've been here.
Thatcher: Will you well me who, and where and when.
Negus: Ordinary Britons in restaurants and cabs
Thatcher: How many?
Negus: ...in cabs
Thatcher: How many?
Negus:I would say at least one in two
Thatcher:Why won't you tell me their names and who they are?

I was one of the working class Mrsruffallo, I got sacked from my desk job at a bailiffs firm in Manchester for giving out tips on how to avoid paying the poll tax.

But I still say we should not celebrate her death nor revel in her suffering.

What I mean is that the poor woman is hated and described as evil because of decisions made and policies that people seem to think were entirely all her doing. Therefore they hate her to bits for it. She, as most ex PM's are, scapegoats

We are not defending her, she did not do all of it on her own. Anyway, she's not bloody dying she's only broken her bloody arm. Talk about writing her off before she's ready.

She's not a scapegoat, most of those ideas were her own. But she did have her party behind her, she had lots of supporters who helped her every step of the way and then pretended they were on our side when the shit hit the fan.

At least she stood by her beliefs, no matter how corrupt they were. Whereas the others, who rubbed their hands with glee every time she suggested those deplorable policies, were only too happy to change their beliefs when confronted.

I agree that she didn't single handedly rule this country.

Only broken her arm? Oh well!

once again, i think that's hardly the mood of the thread. even the OP has said it was a bit off. but this idea that she wasn't so bad after all just cos some years have gone past, it's utterly offensive to considerable swathes of the population who were injured by her at the time.

not to mention the fact that her politics, what was it, 'right-wing free-market monetarist' according to UQD might be 'legitimate' but set in chain the circumstances that have brought the global recession. she put money above all, so did the people who voted for her. i think she ruined this country, wiped our values clean away and now we're in the shit financially and don't knkow what's important any more.

good to see you back, btw. how's yer book?

"the poor woman"? jesus wept.

i never understand why it's a good thing to stick to your policies if they're actively harming people. that seems like egomania to me, rather than politics.

Oh look, a man on Mumsnet!

I'm not sure that anyone is saying she wasn't so bad after all. Only the very ignorant, but none that I've heard - and I've not read the entire thread. But evil? Not sure. Deplorable, corrupt, greedy, selfish, arrogant - all of those yes. But I hesitate to use the word evil to describe her, as I said, I can think of better examples of evil.

Shame that this government has not learn the lessons of the past though. It is just as corrupt, just as greedy, just as arrogant, just as selfish. And not even a democracy! How many members of Parliament were not voted in by the public now? Not including the PM!

I think she was entirely necessary for the time. Don't you remember the winter of discontent, being bailed out by the IMF, the economy in an appalling condition, union bosses brandishing block votes ruining large industry sectors? I think Britain actually faced a choice at that time, and chose wisely. She did a lot of stuff that was wrong but she was a necessary evil (and no Aitch, she doesn't fit 4/5 definitions of evil).

Revelling in anyone's suffering is distasteful, and I think the OP has apologised for it.
But all this other crap about opening doors for women, or not being as bad as GB is nonsense. I don't know anyone that thinks she did any good whatsoever, far from it, and am quite shocked that people seem to forget so easily the contempt with which she treated our communities, our history, the working class esp in the north and Scotland and our institutions such as the NHS.
We are now paying the price for her policies.

There was a stat on last night- with no references and on the supersizers prog so compeltely uncheckanble- that the income of the poorest worsened by 17% under Thatcher and her Government

From my POV, nothing else needs to be said, althought the quote that one might apply here is 'Also: "The moral test of a government is how it treats those who are at the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadow of life, the sick and the needy, and the handicapped." - Hubert Humphrey'

Or even one might suggest future Governments learn from this wise idea 'Warren Buffet's take (more about how things should work) which I've always loved: "Let's say that it was 24 hours before you were born, and a genie appeared and said, 'What I'm going to do is let you set the rules of the society into which you will be born. You can set the economic rules and the social rules, and whatever rules you set will apply during your lifetime and your children's lifetimes.' And you'll say, 'Well, that's nice, but what's the catch?' And the genie says, 'Here's the catch. You don't know if you're going to be born rich or poor, white or black, male or female, able-bodied or infirm, intelligent or retarded.'

She's an oldaldy, I wish her a quiet remainder of her life with no pain or sufferieng. But Ia lso hope we do ot see her like again

Why should we respect her now just because she is a pensioner?
She treated pensioners with contempt when she was in power.

poor woman? She was quite clear that ruthlessness and greed were good and compassion was for chumps. She had no compassion for anyone else, especially not for the vulnerable, and neither did her cheerleaders. How on earth can anyone justify demanding we show compassion towards her now? She'd probably laugh in your face if you suggested it.

She is responsible for many deaths - broke the link between old age pension and average earnings, which allowed her to slash pensions ensuring thousands of elderly people couldn't turn the heating on and died from hypothermia.

Then there's the Falklands. Mass unemployment, as a deliberate policy to move the economy away from primary and secondary unionised industries and turn us into a service economy hung on the financial services industry. So her chums got rich quick and everyone else was too financially insecure and powerless to do anything about it. Not to mention the destruction of the mining towns and industrial heartlands.

Then there's the NHS - waiting lists up to two years meant people died waiting for an operation. She knew that.

As a direct result of her policies she knew damn well that people would die early from the effects of poverty and suffer mental ill-health, which is also linked to premature death.

And you expect ANYONE to show compassion towards her?

Don't try to justify it by slagging off the current government either, their failure to put it all right is reprehensible, but Thatcher and her chums are responsible for what THEY did.

I agree entirely with Peachy.

mrsruffallo, the Old Testament teaching 'an eye for an eye' is both wrong and ignorant.

I agre with you quattro. She was indeed necessary for the time. Britain would have been a bankrupt basket case by the mid 80's if it wasn't for her. She also created greater social mobility than has ever been achieved before or since. Of course even her most ardent admirers would have to concede that she was extraordinarily insensitive and didactic.

As I say though, whe, if she was that bad, has not a single one of her major policies been reversed?

An eye for an eye? Are you serious?
Yes, me posting on MN and stating that I don't respect her is the equivalent of what she did to the country whilst in power

quattro, she only has to fit one for the usage of the word to be entirely legitimate. i don't think that it's merely a question of pointing to someone 'more evil', surely?

but let's not get hung up on the word, and let's not get hung up on the celebrations. if you think thatcher's cool then you're either a moron or a spice girl, how about that? or both.

No, you stating that why treat her with respect because she is a pensioner when she didn't treat pensioners with respect when she was in power.

That is saying, let be done to her what she did unto others.

I personally believe that is wrong, and that no good can come of it.

She's a human being. Even if she didn't much behave like one when she was in power. And therefore has the right to be treated with respect as does any other human being. One of the principles of Amnesty.

You respect her of you like Rhubarb, I'll abstain.

I have no respect for her policies or the person that she is. But as a fellow human being I respect her rights even if she didn't respect mine.

If she dies, when she dies, I hope she does so in peace.

I agree with Rhubarb - what she has posted makes a lot of sense.

Where did UQD spring from? Haven't seen him for ages. Did he hear about the boys in MN debate and come back for a gander? Anyway hello UQD, I agree with your post as well.

lol, she's a millionairess. hardly yer average old pensioner. the idea that we should treat her with respect is laughable. i have zero respect for her. i loathe her.

Genuine question Aitch, which of her policies affected you so badly? Are you from a mining family?

What are her rights? Why should I respect her? I am not going to harm her in anyway, I just don't respect her.
Why is that a problem?

So what would you do if you came face to face with her then? Spit on her? Pull faces behind her back?

What if you saw her fall and she needed help, would you go to help or leave her stranded?

I'm betting you'd go to help. That's the difference between you and her, and you should be proud of that.