Now we know why we are all so miserable - it's because children don't make us happy, says The Times.

[BoffinMum]

Article from yesterday's Times here

I do despair sometimes when I see these anti-child sentiments expressed publicly. As children constitute a whopping 25% of the population, and we have all been one at some point, it baffles me as to why children are continually pathologised and commoditised as being troublesome and difficult (or even having an unnecessarily large carbon footprint, as Jonathan Porritt might put it), as though children were some sort of optional extra lifestyle accessory misguidedly brought into the world by deluded parents for their own gratification. And there was me thinking that children were people.

Does British society really resent children this much now?

you mean having children isnt going to make me deliriuosley happy ? right where do i send them back to ?

I don't read it as anti-child at all - I agreed with every word it said. That having children in itself is not a route to happiness but mindfully remembering the positive experiences with children helps to alleviate the times when it's hard.

But I really believe in living mindfully.

"Children give us many things ? raising them can be both rewarding and meaningful ? but an increase in our average daily happiness is probably not among them. Rather than deny that, we should celebrate it. In the words of Daniel Gilbert: ?Our ability to love beyond all measure those who try our patience and weary our bones is at once our most noble and most human quality.?

How lovely

I agree with parts of the article. It is not all a bed of roses. It is a slog and it is boring and demanding and exhausting and the relationship between the father and mother takes a hit but then the good bits do more than offset in the end.

Maybe short term the parents are less happy but the long run is hugely positive. For example, just going in to check DS1 and DS2 are OK before I go to bed I often come out of their bedroom with a little bit of a tear in my eye because they look so beautiful and innocent.

Talk to childless couples or to couples hwo have lost a child. Their sadness is palpable and can last a lifetime as we know from many MN threads.

I don't think people resent children.

But I think most people enter into parenthood with an unrealistic expectation of the hard work , stress, tiredness etc involved.

My first thought was, if you don't have children, then you don't have grandchildren.

And I am sure that my DD makes my parents and DHs parents happy. They have done their slog raising us, now they get to do the fun stuff without the grind or stress. And quite right too.

I also believe that children should rally around as their parents get older, see them, take them out if they want, visit them in the old peoples home regularly etc etc and that is a duty of GC too (although not as much of an obligation).

Did they ask any older people/pensioners and see whether they were more happy with/without children and GC?

Also this:

"When people are asked to think about parenthood ? either imagining future offspring or thinking about their current ones ? they tend to conjure up pictures of healthy babies, handsome boys or gorgeous-looking girls who are flawless in every way."

What kind of loons were they talking to? People who are fully informed by the boden catalogue? Everyone knows (well everyone sane) that babies and children are bloody hard work, frequently unruly and covered in mud/snot/something nasty you can't identify... That is what children ar about. Can people really not remember being children themselves? I was a little sod, especially as a teen...

I know two couples who have chosen never to have children and they both seem very happy with their choice. What I do notice is that they seem to be quite selfish. Selves ,selves, selves all the time.

Agree with the last 2 paragraphs, definitely, I love my dd more than life but find the whole task unbeleiveably boring and onerous at times. Am pg with number 2 though but tbh am having mild panics at the impending slog, daren't say this in rl.

I hate the drudgery, the mess, the boredom, the loss of social life and the tiredness. But love seeing her grow and change turn into a beautiful feisty independent spirit. Love the way small things become thrilling and interesting, love watch her use her imagination and creativity, the cuddles, kisses and smiles.

Am feeling v teary and fed up at mo, finding life hard but yes my love for her and this next little one will hopefully transcend any "shit have I made the right decision" feelings.

One thing that's hard for me and my family to cope with is my constant irritabilty and edginess. This is something that has only been present since birth of dd but I try my best to take pleasure in things and enjoy different stuff.

Gosh tis so hard....

Yep, I'm not having children of my own (just fostering) and I am selfish - I don't think of it as a bad word. I think a lot of mental distress comes about because people don't spend any time focusing on what they need individually.

The article seemed to look at birth to 5.

My experience so far is that those years are knackering, stressful, boring etc.

I am definitely less happy now than before I had DD. But I wouldn't not have her

And it gets better, doesn't it...

I wonder if a lot of the problems are down to - not the thing about thinking the children will be perfectly turned out and pretty etc (v shallow TBH). But expectations about how you will feel about them.

We are led to believe that we will fall in love totally with DC from day 1 and that will fill us with joy.

For a lot of women (like me) the truth is that they sort of grow on you gradually. I am much fonder now of DD than I was when she was smaller. I am getting to know her etc and we are becomming closer (she is 22 mo).

Of course I would do anything to protect her but I don't feel like the room lights up when she wanders in or anything.

I wonder if it is that expectation, which when it doens't happen for some people, makes them feel miserable...

BigBellas - yes it does. DS1 (9) ad DS2 (7) already say they do not want us coddling and them and that gives us bit more time together.

Anyway back to cleaning the house and then ironing before my wife gets back from taking the DSs out to a softplay area, quick bite of lunch and then taking DS1 to a party and that is after spending all day yesterday with them ferryng them hither and thither.

I think there is a huge problem for women having children. It was very noticeable when I got pregnant that I was less of a person in my own right than I had been before (in society's eyes). When dd was born I immediately became a non-person.

For instance, where before businessmen in suits would make way on the street, once I was pregnant/had dd with me, they would literally walk over me.

I say businessmen in suits because there were a couple of occasions which were very clear, but in fact it was pretty well anyone who didn't have a child with them.

I felt that in the eyes of the world I no longer existed except as a receptacle for the next generation.

I agree with the srticle , having children has not made me happier on a day to day basis. THere are little nuggets of bliss but I am often to caught up with the slog to reflect on them. Maybe I should make more effort to do that.

I do get broody and that puzzles me as I know that being a mother does not on the whole make me happy. I wonder if being a perfectionist I want to have more children thinking that maybe next time I will get it right. It is probably just as well I cannot have more.

But I know that I am quite a selfish person, maybe people who are less self centred get more from pareting than me.

abetadad - Oh god don't tell me there is more to do when they are older.

I am pg and all I am capable of doing is lying on the floor.... (And MNing, natch).

I think I will have the children who aren't allowed to go to any parties then. I will be meany mummy. Then I can rest

Well, if you are really miserable and you think "What can I do to cheer myself up, I know - I'll have a baby, that'll perk me right up" then you're in for a shock.

But I do think your children bring you great joy and happiness and feelings of pride and love etc (I'm making myself feel a bit sick)

However, they also bring you massive amounts of stress and a lot of sleeples nights.

Swings and roundabouts.

I do wonder why there seems to be such anti-children feeling in britain. They seem to never be wanted anywhere, everyone hates their noise...

Maybe we should just have high walled, barbed wire topped camps for kids and only release them into decent society at the age of 35.

I know hecate it makes me sad that they are demonised so. People just don't want to see or hear them anyway.

I suppose it's a consequence of the fragmentation of society - the community isn't involved it's just (more often than not) one parent trapped in with the kids all day every day.

No wonder parents are miserable...

I have 17 month old DD and am 37 weeks PG and I have never been happier. Parenthood makes you more tired, stressed about work etc but definately not unhappy.

I would be unhappy if I didn't have DD and LO but I would be richer .

I also think that we'd have better children if we treated them better and recognised them as part of society and showed them we actually want them around!

Instead, if you go anywhere with your child you get frowns and tuts and huffs - and not just from people who don't have kids! From parents too!!

no wonder so many kids don't know how to behave when they aren't allowed to participate in our society.

I don't see it as a demonisation. I work very hard as a parent and am certainly not trapped in with the kids all day. We have a house filled with laughter - mostly dd to be fair- lots of activities, other children round to play as our house is a "fun house" but raising a child is stressful and relentless.

You will very rarely see me huffing or tutting. I did tutt when she came charging into the front room before covered in flower and butter. But I know when I am aat my capacity and could not cope with another. Better to be realistic about how you feel than to keep producing more children and then fail as a parent.

I wonder if perhaps our definition of happiness has changed and we just expect more. I know people of an older generation look at the life I have with my family and think it is utter bliss. Whereas I see mainly hard work. I combine family life with very long working hours so dont have time to sit and reflect on what has gone well apart from perhaps in church on a Sunday or the odd moment here and there.

I definitely got more personal satisfaction out of working and having a career than being at home with DD. I work part time in a different role now. i don't get the same sense of achievement etc.

At home it's just boring. Don't get me wrong I enjoy DDs company but you know what I mean.

I think I am having real problems coming to terms with the change in lifestyle as well - I used to be out every fri and sat, probably in the week once or twice too, drinking lots and lots and getting dressed up to go out etc.

I am finding it hard the difference.

I know I could go back to work FT and put in the effort and go out and everything - but I don't actually want to.

It's all so complicated.