Now we know why we are all so miserable - it's because children don't make us happy, says The Times.

[BoffinMum]

Article from yesterday's Times here

I do despair sometimes when I see these anti-child sentiments expressed publicly. As children constitute a whopping 25% of the population, and we have all been one at some point, it baffles me as to why children are continually pathologised and commoditised as being troublesome and difficult (or even having an unnecessarily large carbon footprint, as Jonathan Porritt might put it), as though children were some sort of optional extra lifestyle accessory misguidedly brought into the world by deluded parents for their own gratification. And there was me thinking that children were people.

Does British society really resent children this much now?

I feel very lucky reading this thread in that ds does make me feel happy. I enjoy spending time with him and watching him grow. Mind you, I'd be crap as a SAHM, have always worked, so maybe that's the secret (for me, at least).

Thank goodness for a couple of upbeat posts!
I didn't know true happiness before my children. They make me happy, they are my reason for living basically. I have a fantastic job but I love the thought of going home to my children. My confidence, self-esteem, etc has come from wanting to be a good parent. Perhaps I led a sad life before, I didn't think I did, but it was so - well, empty I suppose looking back, no focus. My only regret is that I didn't start earlier!

twinset - you do know my last posts are about other people's reactions to children generally, and not my reaction to my children, or what I think parents reactions to their own children are, don't you?

(From your post it seems like you think I am saying the parent tuts and huffs at their own child, which isn't what I'm saying)

No I didnt perhaps because grew up in a house where I was forever tutted at an dp has a tendency to huff and tut.

I agree about the tendency of some people to tut and huff at other children.

I'm not surprised by the article - it doesn't say anything really mind blowing or controversial.

I suppose if you go into parenthood expecting it all to be sunshine and picnics in the park, or if you've been leading an unfulfilled existence and you have children to fill some kind of 'gap', then you could be setting yourself up for disappointment. But most people I know were fairly realistic about having them - realising that yes, they bring deep joy but also worries, responsibility etc

Like many others on here, I have other parts of my life as well as being a mum which are really important to me- I work, I have my own friends and interests, which no doubt helps to provide a healthy balance.

Ellingwoman- your post made me . I totally agree. Someone asked me recently what me goals and aims are and they are honestly to watch my children grow and develop in what ever way they choose. The focus has gone onto them since having them. Yes I would love to have a day off and be selfish and do what ever I liked but I would miss them like crazy.

Febes I would love to be like that, but just am not.

I never wanted children or to get married. I was quite happy with my job, going out every weekend with friends, shopping etc etc in my 20s. Then met my DH at 28, got married at 30 and had dds and i can honestly say i have never been happier. They make me so happy. I still work in a job that i love p/t and i guess that helps cos children are, in my view, what everyone said they would be before i had them - the best thing but also the hardest thing. Of course I worry about them, am always tired and get fed up of them constantly climbing all over me when i am trying to post a message on here but if i go out with a friend for a day (rare!) or DH takes them out for a few hours, l really miss them.

i wish i could say that Saramoon, am getting more and more fearful at the prospect of this little one being born as dd is draining the life out of me. I just can't cope with her behaviour and I'm NOT happy. Since she's been born i sometimes wonder "is this it?" and then I feel differently for a few months go and get pg and now am literally terrified of the future.

dd was an accident, I'd love to say a happy one but it's not true but when she was born I was so overwhelmed by happiness and joy it made up for the stress and trauma of pregnancy. But now I'm not enjoying it, I expected hardship but not constant irritability and well, boredom.

I'm not a natural mother I'm a rubbish one and it shows in my dds awful behaviour (she's just thrown and broken a table lamp, made me and I've had to ask dh to get her away from me cos I don't want her near me).

How old is your DD minx?

I have a 22 mo and am 28 weeks and I feel like shit. Really depressed. I have no energy for DD and am sick of being pregnant, I just want to get this baby out and get back to normal. I am ashamed to say it but all I want to do is get really pissed (haven't, obviously).

I am hoping that once the baby comes my hormones will stabilise and everything will be OK again. I am sick to the back teeth of feeling so lacklustre and devoid of life.

there bet that's cheered you up!

I don't think there are any many natural mothers, I think we all muddle thru the shite as best we can

Children are very hard work and the monotony of the work involved is enough to make you scream. However, i am a far nicer, better, calmer and more tolerant person and i laugh every single day, and this is all down to being a mother

I'm not a natural mother either, is anyone? And I've just shouted at mine to get to sleep. I've had days where I have wanted to just be on my own or I get angry at them for little reason but all in all, I feel my life has a purpose now - and I don't want it to sound like I didn't have one before but I love seeing them do new things and learn new things. Also, mine are 3 and 4 now and i find it all a lot easier than i did when they were smaller, i struggled quite a lot when they were 1 and 2 but like i said before, i have a job that i love so i guess that i have a good balance at the moment. You say you love watching her grow and be creative and stuff. It gets better as they get older. And I found having a 2nd easier than having the first as you kind of know what you are doing.

Ellingwoman at 13:23 - word for word I could have written your post.

saramoon - its been a looooong weeeeeekend here too.

DS1 and DS2 hae been entertained all weekend by us non stop but it finished up with them squabbling and niggling and they have just been sent to bed and I feel they have been ungrateful.

I will stil kiss them good night and go in later just to look at them asleep.

Being a parent is knackering and the daily grind can be very hard indeed, but there is something so very peculiar about this article. It doesn't add up: it is well known that wanting to have children and not being able to have them is a major life stressor, it goes on for years, and if the couple have losses or have to give up, that sadness stays with them for ever.

I also wonder (and this is going to sound flip but really I'm not sure it is) at the difference between child having and child free people filling in happiness questionnaires/doing interviews. When you are a parent, having organised some child free time, however fascinating the research may feel, there is surely a part of you that things "I could go somewhere clean and quiet, and sip Dubonnnet over ice instead of doing this." When you are child free you can leave your happiness interview and still have time to go and do just that. Or if you haven't got time today, you could do it tomorrow, or Thursday, or whenever really.

The other thing that strikes me is the daft throwaway line of the journo's "Second is to have two children, hopefully one boy and one girl." Now, surely she knows she doesn't get to choose? And yet, no-one edited out that silly, grating phrase which sounds to my ears the equivalent of a nine year old saying "When I grow up I'm going to have three ponies of my very own." Somehow in our popular consciousness, we've failed to accept the hardness and heartbreak inherent in reproduction. Not that many people have the number of children they want at the exact time they want. So many people have losses, or periods of unexplained fertility, or unexpected pregnancies. No-one gets to choose the gender (except under exceptional and distressing circumstances), but we continue to talk as though you just "pop out a couple of kids" and "hope for a girl/boy this time." That's massively overinflated expectations before we even start looking at what having a real child (who isn't perfect in every way) might be like.

Very pertinent point someone made earlier about the age of the people surveyed. The vast majority of the population over 30 are probably parents - it must be a huge generalisation to say that all these people are less happy than the minority who don't have children. The article is really just focussing on new(ish) parents.

And therefore no real surprise in the results. The first few years of parenthood are difficult, and IMO mainly because having children brings such a drastic, sudden change to one's life. I was in my mid-30s when I had ds, and it was a major shock (and the one thing I really hadn't accounted for) that I would overnight never be able to do my own thing again. Took a long time to adjust, and I still haven't completely. Before you have children you can do pretty much what you want - so it's not rocket science to realise that you can't afterwards, so therefore much of your daily life is not geared around doing what makes you happy.

But that is a wholly different thing from 'unhappiness'. What about when your children are teenagers, leave home, have children of their own? At 60, most peoples' lives are similar whether you have children or not.

I wonder on what criteria happiness was based in this study?

Fattipuffs, yes people's lives are basically the same once the children have left home, but childless people will invariably have more money and I imagine generally less concerns than people with children. I don't believe that there will ever be a time when I won't lie awake worrying about my children - even when they are grown up and married themselves!

I think having children wears you down and can age you - all those years of stress and no sleep must have a knock on effect - both mentally and physically - in later life!

I still wouldn't swap my life for any other . But having children is not a way to mend a relationship / fill a void etc. I was happy pre-dds, had all I could wish for, still it has been a massive shock to both me and dh.

Sometimes I think we do what is expected of us without realising the full consequences of what having children involves, as in: marriage? Check. Home? Check. Career? Check. Children? Umm, yes that's next...

Oooh I made a pertinent point!

I still reckon if they surveyed older people and pensioners the ones with DCs and expecially GCs would be happier than the ones with none.

If they're looking at parents age birth - 5 then it's not surpirising the results don't look good.

Also would be interested to see what the questions were.

i am very happy that someone has done an intelligent take on this.
kids havent brought me happiness, yet society and mumsnet make me feel guilty for this. its good to see that someone at least thinks this is a normal thing

I can imagine a life without children where you get to suit yourself all the time would get boring and empty

where's the happiness in another pair of shoes/another new car/another holiday?

comparing it to hearing your children laugh...............to me thats happiness

I used to get a lot out of socialising, going out all the time, working with lively people in a reasonably good job, having a laugh with the girls etc.

It's not necessarily about material things.

I am finding the transition hard.

But I also think that I am depressed at the moment so that will put a slant on how I see things!

ssd rather damning of people who do not have children. I have lots of friends who are childless who have full lives that go beyond another shoes, car holiday.

Being mother of my 8yo dd makes me happier than anything I've ever done before.

It may be because it took several attempts to get her, so I look at her through rose tinted glasses.

It may be that I'm at an age where I realised my career was a little mundane (well paid and flexible, but ultimately, pointless).

It may be that I'm just a bit of an old hippy optimist and so I squeeze as much joy as I can out of every day. And being able to act like an 8 year old for chunks of the day helps me do that so much better.

I also appreciate that the difficult years are still ahead of me. My 8yo may be old headed now, but by the time she's 13 perhaps she'll be wild and wilful and reckless....who knows?

Or it may just be that I'm lucky. Who knows?

I think that is lovely squilly and I mean that in a genuine way.

I battle with depression, so not much makes me happy to be honest It does make me angry that I am missing out on so many special memories as everything has a grey tinge to it.