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Original poster

Tomlinson (G20) may not have died from a heart attack........

53 replies

FAQinglovely · 17/04/2009 15:43

here - obviously still provisional and waiting on all the other tests etc to be carried out but still!

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/04/2009 15:47

bloody hell!
Will have to see what the results of it are.

donnie · 17/04/2009 15:48

I have just heard he has now been officially classed as having died of an abdominal hemmorage (sp). A police officer is being questioned under caution with regard to possible manslaughter charges.

beanieb · 17/04/2009 16:03

story here

Original poster
FAQinglovely · 17/04/2009 16:04

oh it's been updated since I posted - as that's the same link as mine but they've changed it!

OP posts:
beanieb · 17/04/2009 16:12

Ah - sorry FAQ I didn't click yours

there's a bit in it which says

"The statement concluded that both the opinions remained provisional and subject to further investigations and tests."

so I guess even now it's not for certain!

Original poster
FAQinglovely · 17/04/2009 16:14
  • that's ok - the BBC has a tendency to update stories as time goes on. I've seen some odd threads on MN as a story is linked early in the day and is updated as the day goes on so people coming on later add information in incredulous that early posters didn't mention it LOL
OP posts:
ilovesprouts · 17/04/2009 17:58

just heard it too

Upwind · 17/04/2009 19:04

So, how was this missed at the initial post mortem?

willowthewispa · 17/04/2009 19:08

I'm disgusted with the police to be honest! Not just the violence at the G20 but lying about it, and apparently having a "tame" pathologist do the autopsy. It's sounding like the De Menezes thing all over again.

I for one do not believe this is a case of "one bad apple" and actually feel sorry for the individual police officer involved - I'm sure plenty of them behaved just as badly on the day with the collusion of their superiors, but he will now be scapegoated.

Upwind · 17/04/2009 19:10

watching the video the attacker's colleagues don't seem surprised or dismayed by his assault on Tomlinson

How many times does this happen when a video doesn't happen to capture it?

BigBellasBeerBelly · 17/04/2009 19:14

Was wondering when this thread would start.

What a joke. First they lie about "contact" with him, next it's natural causes. Oh really...

Shocking, disgusting and disturbing.

As I said on the other thread, policeman hits protester, no-ones really surprised surely. What's horrifying is the fact that so many lies are told, that must come from above, showing an institutional cover-up attitude coming from the top down...

Upwind · 17/04/2009 19:26

willowthewispa

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/11/g20-pathologist-ian-tomlinson

s o the police have tame pathgologists and are not afraid to use them, even in high profile cases

Original poster
FAQinglovely · 17/04/2009 19:50

I would just like to state at this point (while he thread is still young so to speak).

I do believe there are only a few bad apples. Of course we hear about those because they are the ones that make the news interesting - no-one cares about the rest of the force doing an excellent job.

OP posts:
cory · 17/04/2009 19:57

I am sure there are only a few bad apples. The worrying thing is when other police officers are willing to cover up for them. They don't seem to see that it's the covering up that gives the whole force a bad name.

Nighbynight · 17/04/2009 20:50

How the f**k can an abdominal haemmorhage be mistaken for a heart attack???

Nighbynight · 17/04/2009 20:51

but then cory, its not just a few bad apples is it....its a LOT of bad apples.

we thrashed this one out on the last G20 thread, and agreed that the bad attitude comes from the top

spicemonster · 17/04/2009 20:52

Nighbynight - when they know the victim has been assaulted by a police officer

I have had enough to do with the police to know that the 'bad apples' make up a damned sight more than just the odd one or two. A lot of people join the police to commit licenced thuggery from what I've seen

HecatesTwopenceworth · 17/04/2009 20:54

Upwind-what makes you think it was missed? The second post mortem was arranged by the family.

the first one - well, the cynic in me thinks it is not impossible for someone to find what they are told to find.

Nighbynight · 17/04/2009 20:54

spicemonster - very TRUE. I never, never thought as a child that I would think that about the british police.

Nighbynight · 17/04/2009 20:55

And how hard do you have to hit someone to give them a haemmorhage?

Original poster
FAQinglovely · 17/04/2009 21:18

Night - I don't actually think you have to hit someone that hard to cause a haemorrhage. Certainly with brain haemorrhages it doesn't need to be a massive blow to cause one

OP posts:
lalalonglegs · 17/04/2009 21:33

Really horrified by this story and shocked by how close Ian Tomlinson's death came to being completely covered up. What if someone hadn't videoed the attack? What if there hadn't been a second post-mortem? What if the policeman who had committed the assault (and had covered his face and pulled of his id numbers) hadn't turned himself in? I find it all quite chilling.

edam · 17/04/2009 22:34

Quite, lalalonglegs - it IS chilling. And only came to light because an observer - an American tourist, IIRC - happened to record it.

I just love all this 'shock' expressed by those in charge that officers took off their badge numbers. They've been doing that at demos for decades - certainly as far back as the miners' strike to my knowledge, and for all I know long before that.

And now we've got the spineless IPCC investigating. Fills me with confidence. These are the people who repeatedly let down families of people who die in police custody. And when the film came to light, were they horrified and determined to investigate? No, they marched into the Guardian's offices, with police officers, demanding they pulled the footage!

Poor Mr Tomlinson had tried several times to get home from work but kept being turned back by police - witnesses say he was met with force on several occasions, not just this once. Maybe the bleeding stemmed from one of the other attacks and was exacerbated by the final assault captured on camera?

chequersmate · 17/04/2009 22:38

Why is it manslaughter? A man is assaulted so hard he dies of internal bleeding and that's manslaughter?

How is it manslaughter? Why not a murder charge? Obviously I don't know the full facts but I am highly suspicious. First there is a denial that he even came into contact with police - then his autopsy was fudged. Now they are saying a man who was not even a protester and posed no harm died, probably as a result of an assault by a police officer and that's manslaughter? Why not murder??

Heathcliffscathy · 17/04/2009 22:43

errrr....DIDN'T die of a heart attack.