Madonna Loses Adoption Bid

[Nancy66]

Malawi court has turned her down because she did not adhere to the residency rules.

I think it is really unfair to suggest that because that lifestyle is different to your own, because it is not 'average', that it is somehow less loving?

I am actually a bit confused about people being so dead against adopting from other countries?

A couple I am friends with have a beautiful daughter from Rwanda. I have never heard anyone say anything to them regarding them choosing to adopt from Rwanda and not from the UK? I actually am a bit at all the reactions that she should only have adopted from the UK.

People aren't against inter country adoption - they're just against women like Madonna 'collecting' African babies like some sort of fashion accessory

wow...people really don't like Madonna...

all those people saying...why does she have to choose Kids that still have family....my question...why are those Kids even in the orphanage than? Where is that lovely family they have? But of course much better for a child to grow up in an orphanage...

those criticising the nanny situation....maybe some fellow mumsnetters should have her Kids taken off her, too...seeing that they have nannies and not seeing their Kids very much at all....etc...

hohum...

"why are those Kids even in the orphanage than? "

ermm quite often because the remaining family can't afford to look after the child - in a lot of cases if the extended family had the means to bring the child up they would.

What makes people think she is 'collecting' them? She has adopted one, and is thinking of adopting another. I know in the case of my friends, they have said that if they choose to have another child, they will be going back to Rwanda.
I actually don't understand the problem, at all?

Jesus, if more people chose to adopt than reproduce, a lot of the worlds problems would be solved.

and how would the worlds problems be solved if people simply remove poor children from their home country and move them abroad? Of course there is nothing wrong with international adoptions, but you're saying "this is the way to make the world a better place" - well why not lets just get all the children out of 3rd world countries and then just nuke them? (ok a little drastic admittedly).

But you're not going to solve 3rd world poverty by giving all the poor children a new life in an industrialised one

I don't have a problem with her wanting another child. The problem is that she seems to think she is above the law of the country she is trying to adopt from. There are rules and regulations and she doesn't seem to be following them, which is why the adoption has not been approved.

but FAQ...clearly not the case in Madges little adopted boys case, is it....afterall..he did start a new family with his new wive...so...surely if it was finances, than he would prefer to look after the little son he already had...instead of leaving him in the orphanage?

I think if you believe that he started a new family because he had the finances to do so then you have a very vague idea about life in a 3rd world country.

And also if we applied the "don't have a child that you can't afford" principle which I often see spouted on MN then - well that would solve most of the problems as they'd all stop having babies in 3rd world countries and hey presto - no children living in poverty, the older generation die and there'll be noone to replace them. As the few that could actually "afford" to have a baby would have long since up and left to a "better" life.

If she really wanted to help child poverty and orphaned children why one child - with her millions she could improve Mercy's life, her community's and help the charities already working out there.

I find it all a bit strange, and selfish

'well why not lets just get all the children out of 3rd world countries and then just nuke them?'
A bit OTT there FAQ!

I am not suggesting it would eradicate world poverty, far from it. But its obvious that adopting from third world countries is providing a better life for that child, and the money that the orphanage is not longer spending on that child can be spread amongst the rest.

I am not suggesting that this is any kind of long term solution, of course the solutions to poverty are much more complex, and I wouldn't insult your intelligence by listing them.

I believe she does donate money to charity though, its not as though this is all she is doing.

I did say it was a little drastic

well...he may not...but...hm...if I had a child already and a new wive (well, in my case husband) I think I would still make sure that my own child is wiht me and not in teh orphanage....I do realise these people are poor....but....still, it is so wrong....surely...

also, those suggestions about Madge could do more to help if she gave money to the poor country, rather than by adopting...she obviously wants a child...not just help...and anyway, she IS helping...she has given big amounts of money to malawi, she has opened a school for girls so, that girls are able to get an education, etc...so...it's not that she isn't doing anything for the people of malawi...

maybe we should suggest to all people that want to adopt...well...if you really want to help than give money ...clearly would be ridiculous...
People adopt for the same reason any other person wants a child...it's a very selfish reason...I mean, no Kid ask to be born, afterall...well...when we decided to have Kids we did not think, oh we want a child to do good, blablabla...we decided to have a child (wel, 3 in the end) because WE wanted children....it was a need within us we wanted to fulfiill and therefore completely selfish....

well yes - it sounds very easy sat here in the UK to do that doesn't it fairy - but over in Countries such as Malawi it's not as simple as "oh well we won't have a child because we can't afford to take my son out of the orphanage"

And actually the only things I've heard attibuted to her are not that she wants another child but that she wants a sibling for David.

People would be up in arms here on MN if someone suggested that they wanted another child not for themselves, but as a sibling for their singleton (ie I'm not really interested in another kid just don't want the one I alread have to feel lonely). And is this case it seems even odder as he has two older siblings already.

FAQ...I am no Fairy ...I have ya know...hump...
and I do realise it isn't that easy....but, in little Davids case...should he been made to rot grow up in the orphanage, because he has a father that will never be able to look after him....
oh and I do believe that there are people out there that have a sibling for their first child, because they don't want a singleton for whatever reason...obviously in this case, it is probably more to do with the fact that she wants a child from the same heritage as David...

I actually had a thread once where I said that exact thing, that I don't particularly want more children, but I don't want me son to be an only child, and I got nothing but positive response and support.

Though I agree it is a little different as she already has 2 other children.

'me son?'

I am not a devonshire farmer, I do apologise.

My son.

oh god I do apologise - I can read honest I know you're not a fairy - you're a lady

No he should have been left to rot live in the orphanage, but if his father and step- mother wanted to bring him up then she could have given him a better life that way.

Re the sibling thing - ok perhaps others view it differently, but I personally could never have another child just because I wanted a sibling for the one I already had (or ones in this case).

And as for the heritage - well they're both very little now, what are they going to know of their heritage? (presuming she finally wins this case for adoption) Is she going to substitute her holidays in the Bahamas with them for ones in Malawi so they actually get to know about their heritage??

Or, as is more likely, will have to rely mostly on telling them about it (like with my DS's and their Zimbabwean heritage) in which case what difference it going to make if it's 2 Malawian children or 2 African American children she's got living together.

Are they even both from the same ethnic group??? There are 9 different ethnic groups in Malawi (not including Asians and Europeans) which is quite a high number for the size of the population.

oooo shite - just seen the time - better go and pick my older DS's up from school - urghh in to 2 weeks of Easter Holidays

FairLady: It may be that both a natural parent's desire to have a child and an adoptive parent's desire to have a child is selfish, however, that is neither here nor there. The two processes involved are entirely different and very rightly so.

In the case of adoption, once a child is born in acquires a set of rights as an individual which it does not have until that point. A very different set of criteria therefore applies to a child and how it is treated. Equally preventing someone from having a child fundamentally breaches someone's rights - you need a very good reason to show why they should not be allowed to have one. The right to adopt a child is not an automatic right and nor should it be. To put it another way, if an adoptive parent is adopting for selfish reasons we should have every right to raise questions in a way we shouldn't if someone is having a child naturally.

Don't most people adopt for 'selfish' reasons though, the fact they want a child, or that child in particular?

What other reason would one have to adopt, other than that they wanted that child?

Good, I'm glad she lost. Why should a child be denied the right to live in his/her country of origin and culture? What the poor of Malawi need is financial help to bring them out of poverty. Madge could support these families with all her millions, not deprive a family of a well loved child just because wealth is not on their side. That little girl has Uncle's. Madge could give them a few of her millions and set them up for the rest of their lives.

that is a good point, of course...i.e. are they the same ethnic group (I do not know) and will it make a difference (I do not know, neither)...yes, in a way of course there would have been a chance that Davids father would have been able to take care of him with financial help...if that is what stopped him looking after his own child...but was it? Really?

OH and you calling me Fairy, made me smile....whilst I am no Fairy, I am no Lady neither ....

Stevie.

Do you really think that she, or anyone who wants to adopt from another country, should give up their wants and desires to bring up a child, and instead donate money to the country?