bodies of mum and daughter found

[mrstimlovejoy]

in a lake at back of their house.just been on sky news.
no other details given,very sad.

stop picking on fio
she is very sensible and does not wildly assume
unliek others

fio cp is not an illness.
walking is an indication of the type of cp.
if someone can walk short distances then their cp would not(imo) be severe.

You are presuming that I am presuming

naily, no-one is picking on anyone. It's a discussion. Would you care to join in?

fio x post, I knew you didn't mean illness, just didn't feel right to do a smilsy.

wannaBe in a weird way I hope you are right and it wasn't suicide.

generally though people do not kill themselves if they are of sound mind.

There is a vast difference between killing your child, and killing yourself and your child, iyswim.

It is wrong, and it's selfish, of course it is. And I don't think that men and women who do this should be judged any differently.

But anyone who is in a state of mind to end their own life is generally not thinking rationally about these things.

no
i dont liek to discuss unless i have hard facts

I don't think anyone is saying mental illness is an excuse - but an explanation. When a parent kills a child it's shocking and disturbing and people look for explanations. Usually that they are either ill or evil. If they are ill, it's something that could have been prevented, something with a cause, something that spiralled out of control. It's hard to believe in an evil mother who'd kill her child isn't it? Not that it's not possible, just that it's a hard thing to accept.

Well conversation in your house must be limited.

Having a recognisable mental illness is very different though to just flipping out and doing a stupid, spur of the moment act.

Crimes of passion are very often non-planned random moments of madness.

I do wish people wouldn't get them mixed up with mental illness.

But Boco, I can understand where you are coming from however, your argument therefore links having a mental illness with doing horrible, perverted acts.

It seems the mum and daughter had a great relationship.Maybe in the depths of depression she thought she had to take her with her as no one else would love or look after her the same?If she was in that state of mind she was thinking in a different waySome harsh comments here

Should we not wait to see what the facts are here before we accuse people?

It seems to me a mother would have to be very desperate to do something like this. Poor woman and poor little girl.

Rhubarb, I think the reason that people are assuming a mental illness on the mother's part is because statistically it's very likely to have been the cause of her actions. It doesn't follow, though, that we think that all women with a mental illness will do such a thing - absolutely not.

As others have said, the reason that men and women who kill their children are treated differently is that research shows that they have wildly differing motivations for doing so.

Men tend to have been controlling and/or abusive in their families, be seeking revenge on their partner, and choosing the form of punishment that will cause most damage.

Women tend to be suffering from long-term depression, to bear the full responsibility for the children with insufficient support, and to be searching for a way to avoid the future suffering of their child.

There was a good article on this within the last year (not BoF's link, something else) but I can't find it. I'll keep looking.

It's very upsetting, though. Really sad.

at the moment though, all we know is that they, sadly, drowned. I haven't read anything else, so it could be a tragic accident maybe?

But it is dangerous to assume that mental illness can lead to mothers harming their children, is it not?

We are presuming a great deal with this individual case. But if we insist on presuming, the press needs to be very careful how they report this. Mental illness tends to get more than its fair share of bad press.

Anyway, I shall have to leave this thread as tea beckons.

Rhubarb I'm not saying that having a mental illness means that you WILL do horrible perverted acts at all. Not sure who would argue that, it's clearly a ridiculous idea - and would mean that many people I know and care about are potential psychotic killers, which - they're not.

I'm saying that for a mother to kill her child, it's far more likely that she's mentally ill, than that she's evil.

Few people who are not suffering from a mental illness drown themselves and their child in a lake (if that is indeed what happened).

Very few people (especially otherwise normal and rational mothers) would leap into a lake with their disabled child in a fit of pique.

Mental illness distorts your thoughts completely. When I was ill after I'd had DD, I honestly thought that if I locked both of us in my car together, attached a hose to the exhaust pipe and let us both drift off into death, that that would be the best thing. I couldn't bear the idea of leaving my baby alone in the world and exposed to the general suffering and horror I perceived to be around me. I was her mother, I loved her more than anything and I wanted to be with her, in life or in death.

I never acted on these feelings (I attempted suicide but only when she was safely being looked after by someone else).

Unless you've been in that situation, why would you judge someone?

I just hope they are at peace now.

How sad I heard it on the radio earlier.

"But it is dangerous to assume that mental illness can lead to mothers harming their children, is it not?"

But Rhubarb, anyone who commits suicide is suffering from some form of mental illness, surely? Unless terminally ill?

I empathise with your sensitivity towards the depiction of MI, but there is no shame in acknowledging that MI can be treacherous and brutal.

Also, I think there's a big difference between fathers who kill children and mothers.

In almost all cases where a father, who has custody of his children for a weekend for example, kills his children and himself, there's an element of revenge. Many of them phone their ex-wives/partners, telling them to say goodbye to the children, telling them that they'll never see them again. Or they leave gleeful notes, delighting in their partner's pain.

I've yet to read about a case where a mother does anything of the sort. Women seem to be motivated to kill their children by misguided love, not hate.

This was my immediate local area until a couple of years ago and I am sure I recognise this mother and daughter. As my dd2 has severe SN, I may have come across them somewhere, although from the local news I see her dd went to mainstream school unlike mine. V sad. It may just have been a tragic accident, let's not speculate on mental health without knowing the facts.