Not understanding broad Scots accent "racism"?

[Ponders]

I hesitate to say this is PC gone mad - but this is PC gone mad

Alex Ferguson & Kenny Dalglish would generally benefit from subtitles on the rare occasion they agree to an interview - why is it racist, FFS? There are dozens of strong British accents which can be hard to understand if you're not local to them!

Collins should not have "made a grovelling apology" (if he actually did )

But that's jargon, sgb, and so translate is utterly appropriate. You don't translate from one accent of the same language to another.

Yep, me too, sgb

Some people just go looking for offence where none was intended.

yes you can

1. To render in another language.
3. To put into simpler terms; explain or interpret.
4. To express in different words; paraphrase.
6. To change from one form, function, or state to another; convert or transform: translate ideas into reality.
7. To express in another medium.
8. To transfer from one place or condition to another.
9. To forward or retransmit (a telegraphic message).
11. Ecclesiastical. To transfer (a bishop) to another see.
12. To convey to heaven without death.
13. Physics. To subject (a body) to translation.
14. Biology. To subject (messenger RNA) to translation.
15. Archaic. To enrapture.

I think definition 2 on that list fits doesn't it?

How chippy. Some people just love to be offended...

When I was little we moved around a bit. At one point, we we moved back to a part of Yorkshire we'd lived in before, only five miles away from the previous village. I did not have a CLUE what locals with broad accents were on about. Old village - perfectly intelligible, new village - mystified.

This thread really made me

I have a very strong Glaswegian accent and when I talk to the other mums at school (we now live Herts/Essex border) I sometimes find them looking at me completely baffled.

My dh was all ready for taking us back to Glasgow when dd1 (age 4) asked him what "aye" meant!

In response to the op, "translate" was a bit of a tactless word to use.

The Scottish dialect is difficult to understand if you're not used to it and expecting it doesn't make it easier to understand.

My sister speaks with a dreadful Brummie accent, plus she mutters and Mum often asks someone to translate what she said.

"translate: to explain in terms that can be more easily understood; interpret."

Auld Lang Syne (Long Time Since)

Should old acquaintance be forgot,
and never brought to mind ?
Should old acquaintance be forgot,
and old times since ?

CHORUS:
For auld lang syne, my dear,
for auld lang syne,
we'll take a cup of kindness yet,
for auld lang syne.
And surely you?ll buy your pint cup !
And surely I?ll buy mine !
And we'll take a cup o? kindness yet,
for auld lang syne.

CHORUS
We two have run about the slopes,
and picked the daisies fine ;
But we?ve wandered many a weary foot,
since auld lang syne.

CHORUS
We two have paddled in the stream,
from morning sun till dine? ;
But seas between us broad have roared
since auld lang syne.

CHORUS
And there?s a hand my trusty friend !
And give us a hand o? thine !
And we?ll take a right good-will draught,
for auld lang syne.

CHORUS

I forgot to say, it wasn't the accent he had problem with, the sound wasn't working properly and he wasn't the only person to complain about it.

Mmm. Depends how it was said imo.

I once had a very cringy experience with a friend of a friend at a wedding in Northern Ireland.

Man asked him to (politely) move out of the way. FoF in loud, RP accent: "What? What? Doesn't anyone speak English here?" (he was drunk)

Why he didn't get his head kicked in is anyone's guess.

He knew what the man was saying (was perfectly clear). He was just a cock.

Ok, I've read the full article now. In the context of this article it sounds like a load of nonsense. The woman appears to have been taking offense for the sake of it.

Institutional Racism: "The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate response to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin. Demonstrated or detected in processes; attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantages minority groups."

Look at any racism claim and it is full of people saying "we didn't mean any harm"; "it wasn't racism, it was just thoughtless"; "it was only a little tactless"; "they were being over-sensitive"; "well I wouldn't mind if they said that about me"..

The more people respond with those type of comments, the more it demonstrates the majority / minority argument.

Nothing like a wee bit ay overreaction is there?

FWIW, I'm a born and bred weegie, went to school in Edinburgh for a couple of years and now live in East Kilbride. I went to Aberdeen a few months ago and could not understand a word that was said to me by some auld fisherman guy. Am I racist now?

I do remember when we went to Barnsley, pretty much straight from Australia, and we couldn't understand her, and she couldn't understand us!

The next time Harriet Harman comes to Dundee, the 'natives' ought to adopt the prop used in an old Bob Dylan film for Subterranean Homesick Blues where they write up the words on card in succession.
Come to think of it, no one had a clue what Bob Dylan was saying.

Well, I'm foreign and can understand Scottish accents, Irish accents, N. Irish accents, English accents, etc.

It's a matter of listening and, as Hab says, if you don't catch it, just asking politely, 'Could you please slow down/repeat, I didn't catch that.'

NOT, 'Can you translate' or some other rude shite like that.

No, it's not racist, but I don't understand why Scots are a lot of times automatically subtitled, particularly by the Beeb, as if it's a given they're speaking some incomprehensible gibberish, but if it's England it's never subtitled, even if it's a very heavy regional accent.

As a foreigner, that's a practice that's really stood out to me. 'Oh, Scots, they need subtitled.'

"2. To express in different words; paraphrase.". No, it doesn't. If the misunderstanding was due to accent and NOT dialect, which I suspect in this context it is, then all the paraphrasing in the world won't help. Accent and dialect are completely different things.

Habbibu I won't for a second even pretend to be an expert in the field but I can't see how accent and dialect are completely different, certainly from my perspective there's really no such thing as a "Scottish accent" or an "English accent" - people sound totally different depending on their regional base.

Accent is pronunciation, dialect is vocabulary and syntax. A person's language is made up of the two. There are certain common elements to a Scottish accent, such as the prounciation of "r" in words like word, farm, car, etc, which are not common to most English accents (the West Country being an exception). There are loads of books which talk about this - can recommend some if you'd like.

Actually that sounds really interesting! Is there a Dummies guide to accent and dialect?

aye but expat you live not far from where I was completely dumbfounded by someone speaking in English - but with exceptionally strong accent over in Carrick Castle

common elements to Scottish accents? Really - can't say I ever noticed many similarities between my friends from Aberdeenshire, the Highlands, Edinburgh and the West...

And I guess by dictionaries must be wrong then as to me

"1. To put into simpler terms; explain or interpret."

can be applied to any strong regional accent or dialect as more often than not regional words will be used when someone with a broad accent from any region is talking which may need "translating"

On the Black Isle, various villages would have their own dialect, for example Avoch. Their language is a mixture of fishing lingo, words which originated from Cromwell's troops when they were stationed there plus other components lost in time.
Now compound that with a strong Ross-shire accent and you have a lack of oral comprehension with villagers who live only a few miles away.

There was no umbrage with the misunderstanding; indeed, there is a strong sense of pride in maintaining this unique cultural badge, but it made life a little difficult for the teachers at the local school.

I have problems with any broad accent!!

Habbibu it was due to neither accent or dialect, it was the sound system!

And I guess the dictionary is wrong, fancy having a rewrite? Maybe it could be the next book MN bring out "The MumsNet Corrected Dictionary"?

Racism is banded about as an all too handy term.

All strong accents are hard to understand when the listener is not from that area or used to the dialect. A polite well-mannered person would say what others have put about "Sorry, could you repeat that/speak a bit slower..." etc. etc.

I was bullied at school and nicknamed "posh" because I didn't have as strong an accent as others from my village - would I then say that was racism, because that points out how silly it is.

However, on numerous occassions while working at call centres I have had rude English customers comment on my accent. Very rude and insulting things about my being Scottish and not sounding like Rab C Nesbitt. I tried not to let the comments hurt me and dismissed the customers as just having a lack of the manners they were pretending to have. Noticeably it was always people with upper-class clip to their voice who made the nasty comments.

No, the dictionary isn't wrong (though dictionaries reflect, rather than prescribe, usage). I was disputing your interpretation.

To put into simpler terms or paraphrase is to change the vocabulary, not the accent. So, had he said "I'd like some cheese please" in an accent the listener found hard to understand, it wouldn't be the terms he'd need to change, but the pronuciation - and that is NOT translation, but modifying accent.

Now, my take on this particular situation is that in all likelihood the speaker wasn't using particularly regional words - it was a national political conference, and it's probable that the speaker was using mostly standard English vocabulary, syntax and grammar - it was a reasonably formal setting, and in those situations people do tend to use a reasonably formal register - they monitor the language use around them. I don't imagine that he stood up and started waffling on in Doric, for example.

So it's maybe a combination of an unfamiliar accent, which the hearer should have expected, being in Scotland and all that, and a poor sound system. The Caird Hall is used for classical music concerts, so either is was having an off day, or it's an excuse.

The response from Mary Fee is daft - racism is bandied about way too easily, and its overuse can dilute the importance of what it really refers to. I think her response was pretty chippy, tbh - she should have taken the piss, and had done with it - as it is it makes her look daft.

But translate is a wanky word to use - had it been the sound system, then everyone would have had a problem, and "translation" impossible, surely. It implies that the speaker wasn't speaking English, and would piss me off too, tbh. But I wouldn't call it racism - I'd call it idiocy.

Blotted - am a bit rusty on current reading - will have a scout about and get back to you!