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I'm a diehard Leftie but my son is going to private school - Will Self

229 replies

Swedes · 15/02/2009 23:11

Discuss

OP posts:
AbbyLubber · 17/02/2009 07:13

MrsGuy, thanks for this. Sanity is definitely what we need. And also someone who actually cares. Which won't be Cameron. Think bagsforlife is utterly right about what will happen.

Keen as I am to take over as education tyrant the problem really is that unless you are a politician you can't get anything done. And if you are one, you no longer want to.

OrmIrian · 17/02/2009 07:38

ilovemydog - I heard about that. Used to be quite a prestigious school back in my day. Apparently quite a few parents took their DDs out straight away - on principle

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 17/02/2009 08:58

Agree about David Cameron.Even people who are woolly-mided liberals tend to change their tune as secondary approaches, Will Self just another in a long line. Oddly I do have respect for Jeremy Corbyn (loony left labourite) in this respect if no other. He divorced his wife becuase she did not stick to their principles when they got to secondary age, ad sent theri offspring private or grammar - forget which. We don't have many (any??)other MPS who practise what they preach at SECONDARY.
I suspect in David Cameron's case, if he is PM by then they'll go private, 'cos it'll be a done deal, if not it'll be a 'faith'school like TB. As it is, DC has already rejected several closer primaries (including faith schools!!!) and sent his daughter to a 'faith school' some distance away. Claims she is a tender, delicate soul who would not cope with a bigger school. So the 'special reasons, aka wriggle-outs, have already started.

bagsforlife · 17/02/2009 09:11

Much as everyone hates TB etc, and he did, shall we say, 'choose' very carefully, he was the first serving PM to actually send his children to a real live state school!!

midnightexpress · 17/02/2009 09:33

For me, it's less a matter of good schools and bad schools and more a deeper one about the whole purpose of education. I was state educated (local primary, ex-grammar secondary) and had a very good experience, but that was a long time ago, and I was academic in an academic school so did just fine. I'm sure there would be plenty of my ex-classmates who would say they had a different experience.

And now, as my own children approach school age, I find myself increasingly depressed at the thought of sending them to even a 'good' local primary. The whole thing is so joyless. They currently go, v part-time, to a (private) nursery and everything already seems to be about pumping them into the system, ramming farkin CBeebies down their necks, telling them black and white 'facts' about what is 'good for them' and 'bad for them'. The thought of them having that until they are 18 really makes me depressed and also makes me wonder how they are likely to emerge at the other end. Having fulfilled their potential? Hmm. I don't give a hoot if they can write their names by the age of 4 or read a book at the age of 5 (why? So that they can go and sit in a corner at after-school club and read by themselves? Great).

I consider myself a liberal leftie by nature, but I can't bear the thought of my DSs being stuffed into that at the age of not even 5. However, we are also skint, so I have no idea what the solution is.

OrmIrian · 17/02/2009 09:48

midnight - it depends entirely on your school. Reception should be very relaxed and in the hands of a good teacher it is. None of my DC could read very much by the time they left reception. DS#2 still struggles with writing in Yr 1. But they were never subjected to force feeding or stress. I think the NC and govt targets can be very successfully filtered through the medium of a naturally good teacher.

And you can have a huge influence on their learning experience by how you approach it at home.

UnquietDad · 17/02/2009 10:49

Don't the Balls-Coopers send their children to the "failing" local primary? Don't know if they have had to "choose" secondary yet though.

Lotster · 17/02/2009 11:18

This is an interesting test:
political compass

Did it a few years ago and thought I'd take it again after reading this, to see if parenthood had turned me in to a raging Tory Am still a left lifertarian apparently.

DollyMessiter · 17/02/2009 11:33

Interesting test indeed.
Glad to see I am nearer Gandhi than Hitler.

OrmIrian · 17/02/2009 11:41

More left wing and libertarian than Ghandi

Lotster · 17/02/2009 11:47

I wonder if anyone who ends up near Pol Pot or Mugabe will admit it?!

georgimama · 17/02/2009 11:48

I'm a right wing libertarian.

But I already knew that.

No world leaders are right wing libertarians.

I knew that too! World might be a better place!

georgimama · 17/02/2009 11:49

Just Milton Friedman.

Swedes · 17/02/2009 13:36

I'm a Left Libertarian and I pay for education. Shoot me.

My godfather once told me there was a question I should ask every important person in my life. And it was this:

What do you value most, justice or mercy?

OP posts:
francagoestohollywood · 17/02/2009 13:45

I'm a left libertarian. My children go to state school. We are in Italy, and it looks like the Berlusconi government will do anything in its power to destroy our school system. So, I'm not sure what we'll do in the future. Mind you, private schools in Italy - apart from a few exceptions - have never been considered "better" than state ones.

cherryblossoms · 17/02/2009 13:50

Swedes - I think you've hit something there. I tend to think of that question in terms of the story of Isaac, and I think there is absolutely no easy answer.

Visionaries who set their eyes on the far horizon, with a utopic goal are charismatic and truly have a place in the world. But how, and when, to judge the value of their vision, and their actions on the way to that vision? What if the vision is "wrong" (and in what sense would we judge it wrong? Because, historically it's on the losing side of history? Because we believe we have a wired-in moral sense and it offends that?) or never achieved?

And what if their vision is right but causes hurt to those around them, and are (even temporarily) in their power?

Against that, isn't there a place for the care of others, even if it contradicts a vision? Some more limited idea of value, which has extremely narrow concerns of care? Can it stop itself from dissolving into self-interest and nepotism?

Other people have argued this much better than I can, but I think you're right that it is an issue in this whole "Lefties and education" debate.

The more I think about this, the more I think we should start chatting about the "left "progressive" position on state education - what it currently is seen to be and whether that is helpful.

I think I'm going to go away and ponder what I think about this myself - because, to be honest, I don't know. Plus have several children to entertain, which isn't conducive to logical thinking.

Really interesting thread, though. And the fact these threads keep on coming up makes me think that there is a real absence of "political space" to discuss this, and a real fog over the "discursive positions" available.

Lotster · 17/02/2009 14:24

Despite being LL, I heartily agree with a great phrase I heard this week, when it comes to schools in London, you gotta pay, or pray!

Church here we come...

Frasersmum123 · 17/02/2009 14:56

Will Self is an extremely annoying Knob-Jockey.

Nothing he does surprises me.

Swedes · 17/02/2009 21:02

Ooooh I like Will Self.

OP posts:
RiaParkinson · 17/02/2009 21:41

he does our literature festival most years

whispers

Quattrocento · 17/02/2009 22:45

Interesting test. I am slightly surprised to find that I am a left libertarian.

EachPeachPearMum · 18/02/2009 05:36

Heheh- I am in exactly the same place as the Dalai Lama... now what does that mean?

EachPeachPearMum · 18/02/2009 05:37

mmm- meant to add that I am still going to educate independently... maybe I am Wilf?

Swedes · 18/02/2009 10:21

Isn't Will Self one of those people about whom we all have secret sexual fantasies? I think it's his vulpine features. We want to be taken back to his den, but we don't want our friends to see us going there. Or am I entirely alone in my depravity?

LOL at all the left libertarians.

OP posts:
bagsforlife · 18/02/2009 11:25

Am afraid can imagine him sneering heavily at likes of us on Mumsnet, so therefore don't share your secret fantasy.

There may be others who will join you though