I'm a diehard Leftie but my son is going to private school - Will Self

[Swedes]

Discuss

Good, you're doing something. Great. Bet not many others are.

This is Tony Blair you're talking about Edam, the least principled politician (and there's some pretty stiff competition) ever, IMHO.

The man who when he decided he didn't want to be PM anymore, resigned as an MP and triggered a by-election because he couldn't be bothered to play anymore.

Nothing that shameless man could do would surprise me.

It can make a difference though. If the parents who do care get involved with a school and bring their influence to bear for the benefit of their child it can make a difference to that school. For example my eldest sons school has an outstanding Ofsted report but is on the list of schools potentially due to close because it has too low % of A-Cs at GCSE. This is due to a very low level at intake - has a VA score of 110. If my son gets the level of teaching the school gives as a general standard he will do well. But by acheiving his potential he will also help to raise the levels of good GCSE the school gains.

If all the committed parents of reasonably academically children just sent their children out of catchment or to private schools the school would struggle to improve it's scores. And potentially a fantastic school would close.

Just be participating you can help.

Sorry 'just by participating.

BTW he got level 5s in SATs.

Oh yes quite about TB, I am very much NOT a fan. Was just responding to a post further down.

Btw, my parents did their bit to spare the country TB - they turned him down when he came up for selection as Labour candidate in their constituency. Sadly other people showed less judgment and the Tory in Labour clothing got his chance.

My godmother, whose family have been involved in the Labour movement from the days of Kier Hardie (her father was sacked by the evil mine owner for daring to stand for the council) says 'Blairs may come and Blairs may go but it was my party long before he existed'. I wish I shared her faith.

I'm not talking about 50 years ago though GM, but up to about the establishment of the welfare state.

The Victorian underclass, for all the workhouses and charity boards, was enormous.

"And I think perhaps one of the reasons why the failing the 11+ and being on the scrapheap thing seems less realistic is because there are fewer grammar school places, even in areas where there are grammar schools, so there is a reasonably, if not completely, comprehensive alternative for children who don't get in. More grammar school places would change that."

Very interesting point Fallenmadonna I hope you're right.

Not a Tory, Edam. Definitely not a Tory. He has no understanding of free-enterprise or entrepreneurial spirit. His only policy was to attempt to turn everyone into a wage slave/payroll voter of an overgrown public sector/welfare state.

He would say anything to anyone about anything if he thought it was what they wanted to hear. And then swan off to his house in Connaught Square. Ghastly man.

It is true that the schools available to boys in the part of the borough where Will Self lives are ones that would cause me to furrow my brow.

They are improving, the ofsteds are getting better and better, BUT there are many girls schools -which leaves many boys schools. This is a borough in which the male unemployment is huge, families without fathers the norm, teenage pregnancy one of the highest in the country. Many boys live without ever having known a male family member to work. POverty is a serious issue as is overcrowding in housing, drug use, crime etc etc. they all go hand in hand, and sadly, since schools in the borough really have been crap for a couple of decades many families looking for something better have moved away or if they can afford it, sent children to private schools (NOT just white / middle class families, in fact black families with boys have felt that they have most to risk by staying so have done anything to relocate or go private). There is a polarisation of society. The schools Will Self has available may well be good schools, but there are some where a boy would need a character of steel to do well academically in the face of other factors. The horrible truth is that a boy who is being bullied at primary school would have a very hard time in the secondaries near where WS lives.

Sadly, a more representative social mix in these schools probably would have the most dramatic affect in improving them now that buildings are fab, super-heads are doing good jobs etc - but the poalrisation may have gine too far - the Will Selfs and all his friends and neighbours will not risk being pioneers. I live in the same borough - but close to a school I currently feel v happy about sending DS to. I would not send DS to two of the schools close to WS - and the third is CoE...

Yes, but what do you WANT? These reports on what is and why it's all wonky are fascinating, but what would you like to see? For you, for your children, for the country? What I'd like to see is some gusto and some commitment to give every child the best, absolutely the best education - academically, actively, creatively. Just as we're horrified when the NHS/NICE refuses people the best treatments, so we ought to be outraged when kids are fobbed off with phony qualificatins and inflated grades.

Well, that's a nice vague statement that no-one could disagree with...

How would you do that?

Good. Glad no-one disagrees so far.

First step would be to curb grade inflation.
Increase criteria for an A, then for a B and so on. Creates an incentive for schools to excel.

Make sure - rolling forward - that all teachers have a subject qualification and not just a diploma.

Introduce what everywhere else are called tech colleges, for people who want to be tradesmen/women. Don't force everyone into an academic programme from GCSE. Similarly specialist art and fashion/design schools, but again not until 6th form. Shoudl go with work placements.

Much stricter sanctions on behaviour. Three strikes and you're in juvy policy on serious misbehaviour.

Much smaller classes (the main lure of indy schools). No more than 20.

Lengthen the schoolday, as in France and Germany.

Stop doing 'games' for everyone not talented - the rest should do serious fitness progreamme, at least 45 minutes a day.

Flexible setting and streaming, reviewed every half-term and reinforced by rolling spotchecks.

Get rid of most of the administrative staff in Dept of Education - just go along and fire one in three - and use the money for teachers retraining.

Definite enough for you, FallenMadonna? Let the flames begin.

Agree TB is a ghastly man. But for someone who apparently isn't a Tory, TB did very well at quietly privatising large swathes of the NHS and other public services, slagging off people who do work for the public sector, cosying up to big business, employing tons of management consultants throughout Whitehall, local government, the NHS etc. etc., bringing bankers and their ilk into government and enobling them. I'm not sure the Tories could have done much more, tbh.

This country has spent a long time fostering a 'look after number one, and screw everyone else' philosophy.

We are very good at it by now.

There is little point in being principled and sacrificing your children on the altar of the current atrocious state school system in England.

No one will respect you for it; you may feel miserable for your children (especially if they have any special educational needs), and you'll merely get trampled underfoot as your friends, colleagues and relatives rush for the nearest pre-prep, application forms and impressive cheques in hand.

I can't afford private education for my children, but if I could, I'd do the same as everyone else.

If Ben Elton can go from Thatch jokes to penning musicals with Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber, I think we can safely say that selling out is the new black.

Yup agree with you there DollyMessiter, esp re Ben Elton.

Still wouldn't send my children privately though.

AbbyLuber, sounds like a good idea.

Georgiemama, who says musing on the internet has to help people? This is a discussion on education. I don't presume putting me in a sink school would be much help at all, more of a hindrance I would think. However, if thinking all children should have access to a decent free state education, regardless of their parental 'parenting skills', financial circumstances and background, makes me a bleeding heart liberal, then so be it.

Oh I do find it amusing how a bloke who did scag on the Prime Minister's jet can be paid to write about abandoning one's "principles"...

But in seriousness if I could afford private I would definately do it. I live in London and state school classes are just too large for teachers to be able to lend proper attention and mentoring to our children IMO.

He is not a 'die hard' leftie as a diehard leftie would NOT use the private education system no matter what.He is a one time leftie who has earned a few quid mixed in certain media circles and edcided to do what they all do.Anyone can change their mind and principles as their life changes and their choices widen but 'die hard' means just that

(DollyMessiter - off topic, but since I saw your name have been racking what remains of my brains as to where it comes from - if u read thei PLEASE put me out of my misery....)

AbbyLubber - if you could take over the running of the education system and inject a bit of sanity I'm sure there would be a surge from Indie back in (because many of these of us who have opted out HAVE used it, both for ourselves and DC - and have not just blindly followed our aristocratic forbears using old family money )

Do you really think David Cameron would send his children through the state system if he wasn't the leader of the opposition?

Edam - You are quaintly old fashioned with your politics, aren't you? I honestly think the distinction between left wing and right wing for the two main parties, is almost completely lost now.

A few former private schools here in Bristol turned into academy status schools.

So, selective as far as admission, but free at the point of entry (my terminology attempting to mirror the NHS....)

I don't even know what a 'die hard' Leftie even means these days? .

David Camerons children are nowhere near secondary school age.

I doubt very much that he will be sending them into the state sector then. I suspect they will develop some disorder that necessitates them being educated privately by then, even though he would, of course, absolutely love to be able to send them to the local state school but, you know, needs must......etc etc

It will be interesting to see. It is already known that one of his children has a disability, of course.

Obviously I mean his other two children,