Pope on death bed

[velcrobott]

According to CNN he had his last rites tonight...

Not sure

Tibetan monks ?? off to check

On a more serious note, I think one of justifications for celibacy is that the commitment required of a Catholic priest is such that it would be incompatible with normal family life, and actually of the priests I know that would probably be true.

IME there are a lot of priests whose commitment to the life they have chosen is undoubtedly genuine, and I'm sure that includes celibacy. Clearly there are those who have broken their vow, and some who continue to break it on a regular basis. Whether that makes them worse priests than those who have chosen the celibate priesthood precisely because it enables them to avoid their sexuality altogether is open to question.

But I have been told by a priest who is now quite high up in the Vatican machine that there is no reason in principle why secular priests (as opposed to those from a religious order) can't be married. But it may take a looong while before that filters through into practice. Presumably not in our lifetime.

Buddhist monks are unmarried. (Buddhism began as a celibate order I think.)

Hinduism: Sadhu's (holy men) are unmarried.

Most shamans in 'primitive religions' are unmarried.

Shintoism has celibate priestesses.

There's not much in Judaism and Islam though (Muhammad had 9 wives!).

Thanks frogs - thats what I wanted to say but was afraid to.
I wouldn't have put it so eloquently here

IIRC ordinary priests in the Orthodox church can be married but Bishops etc. are drawn form the religious orders and are therefore celibate.

Frogs: Never really been convinced of the incompatible-with-job argument, because I think most Anglican priests have a similar workload (both are now often running lots of parishes).

MP

I agree with you, as I said our PP is a converted Anglican and runs two parishes extremely well.

oh yes, I think that celibacy should be a choice, the vicar that I knew was celibate by choice and it isn't something that anyone should have 'forced' upon them by some religious doctrine.

Morningpaper - oh yes, I now know how to read a story, mop up sick and mumsnet at the same time !!

What are the chances of the Catholic church getting a Pope who is in touch with the 21st century and who wants to address the problems of the world in a Christian way?

I suppose to slightly answer my own question , it depends on how you would translate 'Christian'

JP2 has been credited with initiating the fall of Communism which is a great legacy, IMO.

Any talk of whom his successor will be yet?

How was the fall of communism linked to JP2???

Thats correct Marialuisa. They have to be married though before they enter the priesthood. Only the unmarried ones can have positions above parish priest. The Greek Orthodox Church is going through a huge scandel at the moment, one of the lesser parts of which are sex scandels.

Twiglett - news to me too but here you go!

JT

I had forgotten what a fine figure of a man he was, and I dont mean attractive, he had such a presence.

Yes the JP2 has done good things too - let's not forget he tried to persuade the USA and UK not to invade Iraq! He is the first Pope to enter a Mosque and has made great strides in interfaith relations.

But he has created a culture where dissent and discussion is not allowed, and that is the main problem with his legacy.

Hopefully the next few popes will die pretty quickly and things might change eventually...

LOL MP

We havent even had white smoke and you are hoping for a quick turn over. But I know what you mean.

At least all the hopefuls are in their 70s. I'd go for the oldest one. (OK not Ratzinger, the other guy...)

what a bizarre conclusion to reach - that by one statement in a papal address JP2 brought about the fall of communism

I am quite shocked at that actually, but I suppose that's how we get our history

Do you not think that enough is enough! poor old geezer is over 80, with a debilitating condition still recovering from a surgical proceedure and last night had a cardiac arrest! No doubt he was rescusitated from that. For what reason? I am not religous in the slightest but is this not an indication that maybe God wants him back, his heart stopped for a reason, because its time to go?
Why can people not die in peace any more?
Its sad sad sad not to mention inhumane.
I hope that he goes today, in peace surrounded by his people.
Sorry if i offend but its how i feel about the whole subject. What do you think?
Just another angle to the subject.

Not offended, however do think even if he wasn't the Pope no man of 84 should be called a geezer. Just my opinion.

point taken, meant "gentleman".

I love the word geezer! Does it have rude connotations I don't know about?

Celibacy was not part of the original Church. Marriage among clerics wasn't forbidden, and it was only during the papacy of Leo IX (1049-1054) that real efforts were made to force clerics to accept universal celibacy.

The concept emerged from Rome, mainly from the customs of pagan priestesses of Vesta and Diana.

Term of endeerment in our house, does sound a bit crass though admittedly!

has he died? they're talking about him in the past tense on tv!