we must adjust our distorted view of hamas

[sherazade]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece

Here's another in a similar vein

hamas has executed indiviudlas who have given away the co-ordinates of the locations of their senior memebers to the israelis, who then went and killed those members AND THEIR CHILDREN.

hamas denied the other incidents.

... and...?

I heard a report on R4 about a Gazan family who received a recorded message from the IDF during the night, telling them to leave their apartment building.

They left, but didn't tell their neighbours as they were terrified of being accused of 'collaborating' with the Israelis. The method of public murder by Hamas is apparently very, very cruel.

Sherazade, why don't you get on a soap box at Hyde Park Corner instead? You are so partisan in all this, it's impossible to have a balanced discussion with you.

nonsense. thousands of palestinians left their homes when instructed to do so by the IDF. thousands, tens of thousands, OPENLY LEFT as a response to messages and leaflets from the IDF. (not that it did much good, as the idf went on to fire at the places they had told people to seek refuge i). people got the messages and left openly. that is complete and utter nonsense. People responded to idf messages with no fear of accusation form anyone and they did so live on tv, even.

And...

Did they have a fair trial? They were "suspected" of being informants.

"Fire was opened on affected citizens at a close distance. In addition, individuals in official uniform or masked persons opened fire on people's legs, severely beat others, imposed house arrests, and threatened to punish citizens along with their families if they would not comply."

I'm afraid that I remain unconvinced that "we must adjust our distorted view of hamas".

I still think Hamas are absolute bastards, sorry.

i will be partisan. I am a palestinian, and have every right to be partisan about this affair. I have information directly coming from gazans, I originate form the land of palestine and I have many family and friends in palestine, and have kept in contact with people in gaza throughout the conlifct as much as I could. I have had sleepless nights as a result of this conflict, and i have had nightmares. I think I have every right to my own convictions.

Jeremy Bowen was wrong, then?

He's always struck me as a sound journalist with an intimate knowledge of Israel/Palestine.

Some of you attacking Sherazade... a well-known phrase including the words "pot" "kettle" and "black" springs to mind.

To dismiss Hamas as "terrorsist" without even questioning why they were elected surely contribtes further to the suffering of those involved in the conflict.

I think both sides are guilty of perpetuating propaganda in this crisis, and of telling outrageous lies to try to make the other side look bad/justify its own actions.

er, bubble99, what do you think people were doing in those mass refugee camps, if you really think people were scared of leaving. this is above and beyond the most ridiculous lie i have heard in the conflict.

Don't shoot the messenger.

This was a report on R4 from a journalist not known for a pro-Israeli stance.

And what about our distorted view of Israel?

Why do so many people conveniently forget that Israel was blockading Gaza for 18 months prior to the recent invasion?

Or that Israel launched assasination raids prior to the offensive of senior Hamas members, and that the rocket attacks were in repsonse to those raids. (And where was the trial and conviction of said individuals? And of course any other poor unfortunates who happened to be in the generak vicinity at the time?)

And if those rockets are such a threat, how come Israel hasn't armed itslef with a few hundred riockets instead of F16 fighters, tanks, white phosphorus shells...?

And what about the forthcoming Israeli elections where Arab groups are not allowed to stsnd?

What about the terrorists who have gone on to become Israeli Prime Ministers?

I thought this thread meant we were being asked to rethink our views on those pesky Hama beads

Ok....am going to go and read the article like a grown up now.

I also thought this was a thread discussing 'distorted' views of Hamas.

I have found it interesting to read the diverse and often contradictory articles on this thread.

I don't think people have forgotten Israel's actions at all. The media has been focussing on it relentlessly. As they should.

However, as soon as reports come out that Hamas is less than perfect and certainly less than civilised, they are dismissed as nonsense or not worth taking note of.

Hmmm.

That shooting in the legs article is particularly.

"hamas has executed indiviudlas who have given away the co-ordinates of the locations of their senior memebers to the israelis, who then went and killed those members AND THEIR CHILDREN. .....and....."

And? And? And what? This is amazing double standards.

Hamas just executes people who have allegedly given away the location of their senior people - who could have been hiding amongst civilians perhaps? - and this is ok? Threaten people and their families?

This is because it is war, I guess, is the reason you'll give.

This is because it is war is also the reason the Israelis give for their appalling behaviour too.

Give me a reason to think one side more worthy than the other. Because there is nobody stupid enough to believe that Hamas are innocent whether they are from America or not. (Weird reference there from some poster)

You cannot.

Obviously you're from Palestine, Sherazade. That much is obvious.

But most of us prefer to see both sides, or neither side.

What is it you want from us, exactly?

IGUN - jsut to clarify, I didn't make first reference to the slums of America. That was sherezade. I was wondering what the relevance was, but Sherezade then explained why she felt it was relevant.

The Indy and the Guardian strike me as media with readers least likely to share the views of the 'slums of America'

I've found it interesting that these articles have been published in these newspapers, rather than the Telegraph or the Mail.

Message withdrawn

I'd be interested to hear any views on this

I had a quick google of Hamas killings of Palestinians and this came up.

I think the 'dancing in the streets after 9/11' has been discounted as old footage?

desiderata, your 'it's obvious you're from palestine.. what is it you want from us, exactly?' post is offensive. I'm a mumsnetter too, and i can post articles and opinions just like anybody else. I don't necessarily 'want' any particular thing from anybody, and I feel hurt that you have turned this debate into 'you' and 'us', and then have the audacity to talk about nastiness. Imagine if somebody had told a jewish mnetter, 'what is it YOU want from us'? it would be immediately perceived as racist. I'm not going to post in here anymore as I am extremely disgusted by your comment, desiderata. If i am a one trick pony as you claim, then funny how you keep coming back to this thread and responding. and reading my other threads and responing? anyway, i couldn't care less now, As I do feel i have outstayed my welcome on this forum.

desiderata, "what do you want from us" is very rude.
sherazade's just as much one of "us" as anyone while he/she is posting on mumsnet.

And this is an interesting thread.
I have no time for the ira (bunch of thugs), but think that britain should have withdrawn from northern ireland years ago. Assume the hamas/israel situation is probably similar.