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Original poster

That thorny old chestnut.... fox-hunting

91 replies

MrsSeanBean · 22/12/2008 17:53

Not that this is particularly in the news at the moment but it's never far away. And with Boxing Day approaching I need to ask the good people of MN for their views on this.

I hate the idea of hunting. But I also hate snaring / poisoning.

I know people who are really nice decent folk who I am sure would never intentionally support cruelty, yet they believe that hunting is a good thing?

Is it really more humane to chase a fox to its death than to shoot it?

I am just an old softie I know, and I do appreciate that 'pests' need to be controlled. I would hate to think however, that my anti-hunting stance is actually supporting other more barbaric practices.

OP posts:
MadameCastafiore · 22/12/2008 18:53

God got a bit graphic there didn't I?

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 22/12/2008 18:56

I hate to see roadkill

OP posts:
TheBayingBanshee · 22/12/2008 19:26

You totally missed the point MadameCastafiore. She was referring to battery chicken farming making the point that what people do to chickens is infinitely worse than foxes.

AnarchyInAManger · 22/12/2008 19:33

Imagine if a bunch of young lads in hoodies and baseball caps all got their staffies together, hopped on their bikes, and chased a fox through a housing estate in Nottingham.

It would be splashed over the papers as an example of Brutal Broken Britain.

IMO that made it elitest. All good sporting fun, so long as you had a horse and some tweeds

choudeBruxelles · 22/12/2008 19:43

dogs are still bred though bayingbanshee, hunts still go on (drag or trail). the dogs are not pets they are working dogs - when they get old you couldn't just re-home them in a cozy semi as they haven't been bred/trained for that.

Loads of things could be considered elitist (designer clothes for one). it's about what you chose to spend your money on. I've had horses in teh past and spent countless hours and money looking after them. Most people i know with horses are not that well off they just spend their money in different ways to some other people.

TheBayingBanshee · 22/12/2008 19:45

Oh well if you can't rehome them in a cozy semi, lets just put them down. That would solve this country's aging population too. . And the stories I have heard are not particularly humane ways of putting them down. SO what is the solution - um don't breed dogs for blood sports.

Piffle · 22/12/2008 19:56

hunti g with dogs goes on
They nowuse guns to kill the fox and/or a bird of prey to aid it
Around here it's a free hunt no holes are covered, most times no fox is found.
I love watching it
In fact tomorrow am off out watching
Loads of free range chickens here foxes decimate them

Callisto · 22/12/2008 20:26

The old 'hunting is elitist' argument is rather out of date these days. Hunting is enjoyed by young/old/rich/poor.

Foxhounds are extremely well-trained and certainly not 'whipped into a frenzy'. Terriers are not 'evil little dogs', they are merely doing the job they are trained to do.

Hunting (both foxhunting and shooting) conserves the countryside the way all of the townies think it should look. If it wasn't for farmers and gamekeepers planting cover for game birds etc the British countryside would have been ploughed up into one big field long ago.

Hunting plays an extremely important economic role in a countryside that has been ignored and even reviled by the Labour govt for the past 10 years.

Foxes are vermin but foxhunts don't hunt foxes anymore - the hunting with dogs bill put paid to that. Hunting has gone from strength to strength ever since which is the best answer to any anti.

choudeBruxelles · 22/12/2008 21:34

they're not being bred for blood sports now. it's illegal. Dogs are still used for hunts which lay scent for the dogs to follow.

don't think i suggesetd putting down the country's aging population.

take it you're not going to bred any animals that won't be put down when their working lifes are done then.

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 22/12/2008 21:51

"Terriers are not 'evil little dogs', they are merely doing the job they are trained to do."

~ an evil job, then.

OP posts:
liath · 23/12/2008 07:48

I used to fox hunt as a teenager. It was one of the most exhilerating things I have done. I stopped because I couldn't justify my having fun at the expense of the death of an animal. I was still a bit sad when it was banned, though.

Callisto · 23/12/2008 09:17

MrsSeanBean - would you class sending a ferret down a rabbit hole to flush out rabbits that are decimating a crop of wheat (which will eventually end up on your table as a loaf of bread) as evil? Or smoking out rats for the terriers and guns to kill as evil?

Foxes are classes as vermin. Flushing them out for the gun, or hounds previously, is hardly 'evil'. It is a job that needs to be done. If it wasn't for conserving a population of foxes for the hunts, there would be no foxes in the countryside.

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 23/12/2008 11:50

Yes I would.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 23/12/2008 11:55

One definition of evil being:

~ "that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune".

or how about:

~ "Evil is a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. "

OP posts:
KayHarkerTheHeraldAngelsSing · 23/12/2008 13:17

Are we really putting human motive judgements on animals? Those wicked lions, eating the lovely bouncing deer. That's hardly sensible, is it?

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 23/12/2008 13:25

No kayharker, of course not. It's the people who encourage these practices, ie those who send the dogs/ ferrets etc and who, no doubt, derive great enjoyment from the results (sick people).

OP posts:
KayHarkerTheHeraldAngelsSing · 23/12/2008 13:31

But next door's cat is a very good mouser and dispatched some of the rats we had on the waste ground near us. It was a) just doing what was instinctive and b) ridding us of some nasty creatures that were causing problems, which made me happy.

It's not an evil animal. You can even tickle it behind the ears.

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 23/12/2008 13:37

Cats are exempt from any form of criticism... I like them almost as much as foxes.

Cats decimate birds too, so I hope no-one starts hunting them!

One of my cats once came home bearing a duckling. Another brought me a rabbit.

OP posts:
KayHarkerTheHeraldAngelsSing · 23/12/2008 13:44

tbh, I'm not really sure why I clicked on this thread, I find the whole topic a bit . 'Tis my gobshite opinion that we're far too sentimental about animals in this here country, and too far removed from the realities of being part of the food chain.

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 23/12/2008 13:50

I agree we would probably all be vegetaraian if once we peeked inside a slaughterhouse.

However, I believe that you can eat meat which has been cared for ethically and slaughtered humanely if you are prepared to pay more and shop carefully. I salute the likes of Jamie and Hugh wossname who are exposing battery farming for what it is.

OP posts:
KayHarkerTheHeraldAngelsSing · 23/12/2008 14:01

Oh, I agree with you. I'm not a vegetarian and I'm quite happy not to be.

Nekabu · 23/12/2008 14:09

Foxhunting (as it was pre-bill) did kill the old and sick foxes, who are the very ones who will venture near humans and cause devastation amongst poultry. Hounds run slower than fit, healthy foxes and so they could be relied on to cull the sick or old.

Earths should only be blocked or dug when a farmer has requested a specific fox be killed (usually one that has been after their livestock) and that can be a condition in allowing the hunt to go on their land, so the hunt has to do it. The fox that has been extracted from it's earth is then shot, it isn't hunted.

Foxes are very difficult to shoot cleanly and gassing/poisoning are very variable and can catch other animals too.

Personally, I don't hunt and never have as I know foxes do need to be culled but would prefer not to take part in it myself. Though I would cheerfully have throttled the fox I caught with one of my hens in it's gob ... Luckily we got there in time and got it to drop her.

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 23/12/2008 14:12

I am still thinking that a viable alternative could be the 'Mrs Sean Bean home for elderly and sick foxes'. Hmmm, how many would we be talking ball-park?

OP posts:
AaliyahsFirstXmas · 23/12/2008 14:21

I'm sorry that I haven't read the whole thread but I'm abit at some of the responses on here.

Anarchy - Why would the group of teenagers have staffies? why not any other dog?

Caz - It's kinda humane. I agree that i'd rather the fox was hunted than shot. However if the shooter was a great marksman who was guaranteed to bring the animal down with one shot quick and easy then I agree that it should be shot.
However, the way that the baricade the holes and send the terriers down after the fox "won" is why I don't like hunting.

I think if they want to have their own little "club" or just want to run the horses (it's a lovely game for a horse to run across the country jumping natural fences etc) then you should be drag-hunting.

Incidently. there is a rescue (wish I could remember the name) that rehomes ex hounds and they do go to semi detached houses. So long as there are no small furries and the new owner is willing to do a little toilet training - bit like having a new puppy. They are WELL trained and make brilliant pets. I just don't like beagles so wouldn't have one.

EarthwormFrittataBugEnchilada · 23/12/2008 14:21

It's a sport - not a necessary means of culling vermin. As evidenced by the poster who admitted it was the most exhilarating thing she'd ever done.

It's just not really on to have sport at the expense of any sentient being really, whether you try to justify it by saying they needed getting rid of anyway.

What next, throwing death row prisoners into gladiator style fight to the death arenas?