What do you think of the 5% tax hike for those earning more than £150k - good or bad?

[soapbox]

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Oh Quattro what a basic mistake - working longer isn't necessarily working harder.

I don't happen to think that nurses are poorly paid anymore, but anyway.. Quattro - it's not just the hours is it, it's the nature of the work.

Some people do very physically and emotionally draining work that wouldn't be sustainable for more than a standard working week.

Some people work very intensively when they are at work, cramming in as much as they possibly can, working through lunch and not wasting time.

Other people, the ones with presentee tendencies, appear to work harder because they are in the office for longer. Look closer and you see they are not working efficiently and they are sticking their nose into things that are not their job.

These differences can be seen right across the board, so it's impossible to equate number of hours worked with how hard someone works.

We'll have to differ on that one.

My training had harder barriers to entry, was longer in terms of years, and entailed longer hours during those years. The subsequent experience has been hard won.

I think that I could become a nurse. I don't think that many nurses could do my job.

Haven't read this v big thread but this has been really bugging me since it was announced so will pitch in.

We will be hit with this tax and what has been really bothering me is that two people can earn the same money as DH and pay far less tax but I'm a SAHM and we have one income and we pay more. I'd just like the govt to do things fairly.

When you are earning £150K - you are expected to get results - if you are in the office long hours it means you are working efficiently for those long hours because if you are not then you will be out the door as there are plenty of people who will want your job.

Hmmm. Forgive me for being sceptical on that one. The long hours culture is a macho thing isn't it?

Quattro - I think I could become a nurse as well. I'm not sure I could be a nurse though. People throwing up on you, and worse; taking abuse (verbal and physical) day in, day out; having to watch babies and children be ill and die. That's a tough job by any standards. I have huge respect for anyone who does such an emotionally demanding job and manages to stay sane.

why is working long hours a macho thing? are nurses who work long hours trying to be macho now?

Pickupthismess - that works at both ends of the scale. If me and DH did 16 hours a week each, which adds up to less than a full time job, we would receive twice as much tax credit for the same income - AND get help with childcare costs. Currently I work full time and DH works when he can (not 16 hours) - we get no help with childcare. I think this is extremely unfair.

gosh, is anyone going to post a follow-on thread for this heated debate? It's going to run out soon...

And Quattro, I don't think you could be a nurse, not really. I doubt you could hack the hours for the low money - and it's not about doing a 37.5 hours week, they do shifts, often double shifts to cover absentees. When the 48 hour week first came in, many NHS people signed out of it because we couldn't fit our working week into 48 hours.

Nurses are in the business of saving lives. Nobody ever died because a tender document didn't go out on time (for example).

I have to say, why are nurses so deserving? Whenever I've been in hospital they've been bloody useless and uncaring. Even in SCBU they were awful at the hospital DS1 was born in. I know some are of course dedicated to and good at their jobs but aren't a lot of people?

There are lots of people that work very hard and do not earn very much money, appreciation or respect. On the other hand there a lots of people who earn over £150k and work very long hours with or without appreication or respect. it's not about being macho or greedy. It's about making the best of what you have and your skills and if that means that you may earn a large amount of money then so be it.

New thread here

It's about skills though isn't it? Of course I would hack the hours for the low pay if I had no other marketable skills and needed to feed the DCs.

It's like I said a lot earlier in the thread. Nursing is one of those occupations that attracts media interest and sympathy, so it's the one that's used as an example. There are many many other jobs out there that are equally, or more deserving, but get completely ignored. What about all the people working in hospital labs for example? And what about social workers - they get a load of stick, but there's a job with one hell of a lot of responsibility - I wouldn't want to do it.

I've worked in a carehome - did it for years when I was younger. and I don't think it was hard. nor did I, imo, work anywhere near as hard as I do now. I enjoyed it very much. however this thing about working "hard" or work being "hard" is v. subjective. I was young, healthy, and knew that I would not be doing the job for life. I wouldn't particularly compare myself to someone who'd done it for years, had varicose veins and constant back twinges and had no chance of ever changing job. there are two factors in whether people work "hard" - it's not just the nature of the job, it's the nature of the person and how well suited they are to it - physically, intellectually and emotionally. generalisations about whether nurses or bankers work hard, to my mind, fail to take that into account.

Well there are about 40 people in the whole country with the skills and knowledge to do my job. That doesn't equate to good pay for me - very far from it. It's more to do with how much your job is valued by the people with the money. As we've discovered, the only jobs that are really valued (in a way that translates into pay) are ones that are concerned with making money in some way.

Anyway regardless of who works the hardest, if people knew that this extra money was really going to help a hospital or fund a school then it would be a good idea but the point is that it's not really going to do any of those things, it's just going to go into black hole of nothingness. The Govt completedly fucked up our economy and instead of addressing what to do they want to deflect the heat from them and create a pitchfork mentality against the supposedly "super rich".

Amen to that

You may well get that last word Quattro

Or maybe I will.

or maybe I will - Quattro, my point was that in your current position as you are now I don't believe you would hack it as a nurse. Not if you were a different person with no other skills.

Twinklemegan, thank you for mentioning my under-recognised profession!

pickupthismess is right that couples with say one income of £50,000 are substantially worse off than couples where each spouse earns £25,000, thanks to the unfair tax system of this country.

Some of the money will go to help people in the public sector keep jobs (3% of new jobs in the uK in the last 5 - 10 years have been in the private sector and 26% (in Scotland at leas) in the public sector. We have had a massive change in the UK and loads more public sector jobs created. If those people are put out of work many will go on the dole and we'll have to support them anyway, although bodies like HMRC and many others have in fact been laying off staff so I suspect the days of more public sector jobs are over.

If 40 people can down Tw job only but that doesn't mean high pay then society and business must not value that job I suppose, but in general if skills are short then wages go higher. It's always been like that. In building booms when builders, bricklayers etc are short wages shoot up (eg at a time in Docklands). I often say to people for one element of my work that's fine (when the pay offered is too low) go and find someone who will do it for less.

It needs a new thread....