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americans and their " culture"

217 replies

Cod · 16/03/2005 07:20

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
Ameriscot2005 · 20/03/2005 07:54

Irish-American...my inlaws claimed this when I first met them over 20 years ago, but I haven't heard them say it lately. Maybe calling them Plastic Paddies had something to do with it . They live in a suburb where you are either Irish, Polish or Slovenian, and you pretty well stuck to working and socialising within your own group. I think things are changing as the current generation doesn't feel obliged to marry someone of their own kind.

We lived in the same state as them, but 250 miles away, and in our city, the predominant ethnic background was German. I don't think anyone (including Irish, Italian, Polish etc) there ever bother with their ethnicity except to have an inordinate love of hotdogs.

I think some ethnicities are just a bit more flashy about it than others. But historically, it might have had to do with levels of poverty when they moved over in their droves. Irish, Italian, Polish were very poor, so they needed a lot of help from their fellow countrymen to find work and lodgings, and it was probably a lot easier to make a go of it if they stuck together. And by sticking together, and only marrying within their own groups, they were able to keep elements of their culture alive.

Perhaps in our parents' generation, there was sense of duty to recognise where you came from, but I doubt that many younger people feel the same way.

tigermoth · 20/03/2005 08:07

just read some of merc man's messages on the links you provided, and saw your messages americscot and expatinscotland. I am shocked that such a grey area exists in some people's minds about claiming benefits they should know they are not entitled to. Even more shocked to hear that some benefits advisors in university and job centres are apparently giving very wrong advice to them. Sounds like it's a retraining issue at the very least.

Earlybird · 20/03/2005 08:45

Most of the Americans I know who voted for Bush did so on the basis that he has pledged to entirely eliminate Inheritance Tax in 2008. That was by far, the key factor for them. So, for those who think America is a materialistic society (and I agree), the elimination of tax far outweighed any misgivings people may have had about his other policies. That single pledge got him many votes, and seems to have gone largely unreported/unacknowledged here.

Ameriscot2005 · 20/03/2005 09:32

Tigermoth, I think the concept of "something for nothing" makes common sense go out of the window for some people.

Benefits counsellors in universities are probably not trained in immigration issues, so I can understand their suggestion to apply anyway - but to follow through on the application process, you have to declare your immigration status very early on in the application. The Child Benefit application is very clear, ISTR.

expatinscotland · 20/03/2005 13:44

True, Ameriscot. Some persons are VERY clearly informed, in writing, that an individual who is NOT a permanent resident of the UK cannot claim benefits - in fact this information is very easy to find on the DWP's website. So even if a civil servant mistakenly awards such a person benefit - out of lack of training, for example - the person is STILL violating their visa by taking public funds. The onus is on the visa holder to find out what is and is not a public fund.

You're right, it's the 'something for nothing' greed mentality. Like people who say 'The NHS is free'. Um, then how come there's a deduction from all our wages to pay for it?

Some people are all about what they can get, rather than what they can give.

expatinscotland · 20/03/2005 13:46

Furthermore, if you're educated enough to have organised all that's necessary to pursue a PhD in a foreign country, you're educated enough to find out what a public fund is.

JoolsToo · 20/03/2005 13:50

hello expat! this has been on my mind.

I mean, you know benefit fraud goes on - but its just the blatantness of it - to see someone owning up to it for all to see on a website - I'm still in shock!

expatinscotland · 20/03/2005 13:59

Well, the person whose thread you read isn't the only one. Far from it. It really got my hackles up to read about the holidays certain benefits cheats were/are taking. We haven't had a holiday in 2 years for paying taxes to fund their stay here. Then they write about how depressed they are to have to go back after their visa expires. I'll bet!

JoolsToo · 20/03/2005 14:07

oh lordy lordy, don't! -

JoolsToo · 20/03/2005 15:57

"It's sobering to realize how many people have managed to get benefits they aren't entitled to. We had a guy on here last year who was a PhD student with a family (like we are). He had managed to get Working Families Tax Credit and said it was so much money, he bought a Merc! It's frustrating when most of us play by the rules. I wouldn't want to risk deportation. "

couldn't click onto to this thread - they're very wise to lock people out!

expatinscotland · 20/03/2005 15:59

Yet there are those who write things like that, Jools, but are themselves students claiming benefits - deportation be damned.

Ameriscot2005 · 20/03/2005 17:25

Jools, you can read any post via the "search" function.

JoolsToo · 20/03/2005 17:52

Ameriscot - I got that post through search but it won't take you to the actual thread!

not for me anyway!

I was looking for ones about holidays! (without success)

there's a lot of 'what can I get?' on there isn't there and Child Benefit' seems to be a big confusion too!

mamadadawahwah · 20/03/2005 19:07

Yes, Stompin Tom is the man! Why didnt he accept the poet laureate position offered him years ago. I have ALL his records. My favorite is Sudbury Saturday night, as it is applicable to many places in the U.K. and beyond. For those of you who dont know him, get his records. They are a real piece of canadiana. The woody guthrie of Canada.

expatinscotland · 20/03/2005 20:12

There sure is, Jools. And what part of 'Child BENEFIT' is so hard to understand as regards whether or not it is a public fund?

expatinscotland · 20/03/2005 20:20

Jools,
I've contacted you about this.

I simply can't believe that s/one here as a 'Highly Skilled' migrant would even dream of applying for ANY state benefit, much less have to ask for clarification. Those persons have to demonstrate advanced education to qualify for that visa. It's too bad the government doesn't have a 'greed threshold' in place as well. Might save the taxpayer a bob or two.

tex111 · 21/03/2005 09:22

Just going back to the original topic for a moment. I was looking into baby names and found this article on a US website. Thought it was interesting.

Häagen-Dazs names

Today, an American girl is more likely to be named Gianna than Johanna. The very foreignness of a name can be part of its appeal: Nadia is exotic, Nancy too "ordinary."

The same phenomemon is well known to makers of consumer products. American companies adopt foreign-sounding names to build their brand images. The specific faux-nationality depends on the image they want to convey. (Check out the French accent of any U.S. cosmetics or hair-care aisle.) And that image can be more important than any authentic foreign connection.

Take Häagen-Dazs. The ice-cream maker, founded in Brooklyn, NY, was a pioneer in pure distilled foreignness, unencumbered by meaning. Vaguely Scandinavian in form, Häagen-Dazs is actually just artful gibberish. Few parents would go that far, coining a whole new name with fake foreign roots. But parents do take liberties with spellings and variants of common names to link them to other cultures. A case in point: Megan.

Several popular variants of Megan incorporate traditional Irish-style spellings. Meaghan, for instance, echoes Irish Gaelic classics like Eoghan and Fearghal. It's a particular favorite of families of Irish descent in the U.S., Australia and Canada. Yet it's not an Irish name.

Megan is Welsh, a traditional pet form of Margaret. Meaghan (and Meghann, etc.) appear to be modern creations, rare in Ireland and the U.K. In fact, to an Irish speaker, the extra "h" in the middle transforms the name entirely. G is prounced like the familiar hard g in Megan; gh softens to a gutteral cousin of y or w. So Meaghan would be...umm...something along the lines of "Ma-hwyn." (The rules of Gaelic pronunciation frankly overwhelm me, so if I've mangled that, be gentle!)

Yet across the ocean from Ireland, parents are choosing the name Meaghan to reflect their Irish heritage. As a quick demonstration, I ran Google searches for Meaghan paired with five of America's most common distinctively Irish surnames (Sullivan, Murphy, Kelly, Kennedy and Ryan) and totaled the results. Then I ran the same search using the English surnames closest in frequency to those names. The result: Irish surnames yield 11 times as many Meaghans. Clearly, this name is chosen to reflect parents' Irish roots -- even though the name itself has none.

Is this irrational, inventing a new name in the name of tradition? Not necessarily. Just as Häagen-Dazs achieves its goal by "signalling" Scandinavian, Meaghan successfully "signals" Irish. Parents are drawn to the name for its Celtic roots, but want to move it into their specific ethnic territory. The result may not be Irish, but it is Irish-American -- clearly and authentically.

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