Has your under 5 ever been excluded from school?

[AtheneNoctua]

How does a 5 year old get like this? Surely some parents aren't taking their jobs seriously.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7713227.stm

I should have said that I am shocked at the fact that this child is capable of such behaviour.

Amen to that re school choice Abbey. But do apply for the job - I love (loved, am officially on childcare 'break') working with excluded kids, and because there are fewer children, you can get more involved.

Lumpsdumps, that is shocking and yes, children should be protected from abuse.

I think I would love it Umbellala and I can relate well to these DCs if I am not dealing with 29 other DCs at the same time.
However I haven't the confidence to try without some training first, I think I might fail. Ideally I would like a job as TA with them to test the water but that is not on offer and it would also be a big drop in earnings.

Oh yes, I know that about the killing with kindness. I wasn't for one minute suggesting that that made up the bulk of these kids at risk of exclusion. I was answering a post suggesting bad parents were the only possible reason.

I've taught in many LEAs across the country. The difference in the amount of support they make available to their schools is vast. Inclusion can work in many cases but only with funding and support. I often hear the phrase,'it's not all about the money'. Well in this case it is.

The other thing we need to remember is that inclusion is not right for all children. For some kids, moving out of mainstream is the absolute best thing for them.

I think what is confusing about this thread title is that 'excluded' is often used synonymously with "expelled". Expulsion includes the idea of punishment. The idea that a child of 3/4/5 is responsible for their own behaviour problems and should be punished by expulsion, I think most people would agree, is wrong. (How would a child of that age even understand whether they were on holiday or excluded?) On the other hand it is far more easy to understand that some schools do not have the facility to deal with some children, whether because of behaviour problems caused by outside influences or because of SN.

The headline (and the article in the Times) don't clarify what they mean by 'exclusion', and the article in the Times also puts forward reasons for much older children being excluded.

I don't understand your post, MP. There is no such term as 'expelled' anymore. There is permanent exclusion (what was being 'expelled') and fixed-term exclusion (being 'suspended').

I agree that exclusion for littlies (and sometimes older kids) shouldn't be for punishment. But sometimes it is to send a message to others (and the child) that certain behaviour is unacceptable - and that simply they are unable to be educated in a mainstream classroom (without further support), usually for the safety of other children. The numbers seem high, I agree.

Is exclusion used as an example for other children though?

A five yo in DS's class has had a fixed term exclusion. DS didn't know about it, and I only heard through mums at the school gate.

A boy is DS1's class has had fixed term exlusions several times. I'm only aware of it becuase teachers have let it slip in conversation to me.

The last time DS was excluded (for hitting a girl who had been teasing him) I asked the teacher not to mention to the class he had been excluded as I was so ashamed and didn't want to be gossiped about - and the teacher respected that. (Unless of course she let it slip in conversation with another parent )

I'm really not clear on whether expulsions are supposed to be kept confidential, or used as an example to others of what might happen if they don't behave.

They are primarily to remove the disruptive child from the classroom setting to enable the teacher to teach and the other children to learn. Punishment may come into it at secondary level when kids start to become aware about references and stuff.

" There is no such term as 'expelled' anymore. There is permanent exclusion (what was being 'expelled') and fixed-term exclusion (being 'suspended')."

So what you are saying is that there is such a thing as being expelled or excluded - it just has a different name. My point is that its not helpful to include the example of a 4 year old with SN being moved to a different school in the same statistics as a 15 year old being removed from school for dealing drugs. It doesn't provide useful information.

"expelled or suspended"

Oh I see. Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant. Yes, I agree. IME fixed-term exclusions are used v differently to permanent exclusions.

But a kid with SEN being moved to a different school would not usually have been p excluded to do so...

But, as you say, the behaviour of a child of 5 that is excluded from school "is more likely to be attributed to social circumstances or an undiagnosed special need".