thelondonpaper - apparently visiting prostitutes is a perfectly normal thing to do...

[ChukkyPig]

Yesterday they ran a piece in the "columnist" section where people can send stories in.

It was a piece by "john" who basically justified his use of prositutes on the grounds that modern women are awful and won't look at him so what's he supposed to do.

here

I was a bit but thought, never mind, the letters page tomorrow will be full of letters picking holes in the piece.

Today the letters page was crammed with responses to the article, ALL of which said that it was sad the guy was so lonely, it was understandable that he used prostitutes, that it was fine these days, and that anyway modern women are shallow bitches so what do they expect men to do.

I was a bit shocked TBH that the paper didn't print a single letter mentioning exploitation, trafficing, that women aren't awful and what's he on about etc but no.

Anyway the paper had picked this as a "hot topic" so I go online expecting to see some anti-prostitution comments. But there aren't! One person (out of about 30) mentions trafficing/coercion but that's it. The rest of the responses are sympathetic and understanding, mostly saying that there are decent women out there.

Where's the moral outrage? I know it's a rag but this is bizarre all the same.

I have posted a comment but oddly it hasn't appeared yet - maybe it's being moderated - or maybe for some reason they are only displaying sympathetic responses.

I am having an outraged moment - please feel free to join me...

And - do publications have to give a balanced view on their letters pages? or are they allowed to just print one point of view? Guessing the latter...

DITTANY - when you stand for parliament you will have my vote!

i agree with every word you say.

I don't think they only print comments which validate the stance of the original article. There are certainly some critical ones in there now.

I wouldn't visit a prostitute, but that's easy for me to say because I have a gorgeous, sexy and loving wife. I think whoever's DH it was said upthread that part of the point of it is knowing the other person wants you is spot on.

I can remember - even though it was 15 years ago or more - what it's like to be a young lad being single for a long time and to be walking around thinking "the entire fucking world is composed of couples" and "everybody else seems to have a girlfriend except me". It's not nice. There is a germ of truth in the writer's "Brad Pitt" comment.

OK, so he's obviously not meeting the right women - like other commenters, I know guys who are hardly Adonises but who have lovely wives. They all seem to be pretty well-off though. Funny, that...

'I can remember - even though it was 15 years ago or more - what it's like to be a young lad being single for a long time and to be walking around thinking "the entire fucking world is composed of couples" and "everybody else seems to have a girlfriend except me". It's not nice. '

It's a pretty big leap from this to saying that it's OK to use a prostitute, isn't it? Women are single all the time; they don't think they're entitled to use someone else's body for the purposes of masturbation. Or is men's sexuality more urgent than women's, and is it more important that it should be satisfied in a manner that is entirely to their liking?

I find the idea that any female body will do, if your partner is ill or unavailable, really odd.

@dittany: That's a pretty cynical way of putting it, and not how I put it at all!

@policywonk: it is a pretty big leap, which is precisely why I didn't make it.

Mumsnet speciality this month: putting words in people's mouths.

OK, fair enough if that's not a leap you intended to make - but the way your third paragraph followed on from your second made it seem as though that was the thread you were following.

Non-aggressive question: what is the relevance to the prostitution debate of your point about it not being nice being single? I honestly don't understand why you brought that into it if it wasn't to 'help' us understand why some men use prostitutes.

dittany, your hatred of men stops me from taking anything you say seriously, how can you say that about unquietdad?

I don't know where I stand on this subject, somewhere in the middle, I hate some aspects but can understand others. I agree some sex workers enjoy their jobs, I have no sympathy for the addicts...they chose their addiction and do whatever to get their next fix and prostitution is quick and easy and pays better than working in tesco, the trafficking is abhorrent

I don't get some womens hatred for all things prostitution though, I know many women that have sex in return for things in relationships, especially in the early days (then they give up when married) or for items

I can understand men wanting an actual act as opposed to a wank. I can feel like that sometimes and phone a 'friend'. I also understand some men don't have the confidence to go looking for a partner, through looks, personality etc

I can't hate prostitution, I can parts of it but not all of it

policywonk, I did think "John"'s initial point got a bit lost, which was that men who are single for a long time can start to feel irrational about the whole think and think they're not going to get a girlfriend (I dislike the verb) unless they look like Brad Pitt. I'm sure some women feel the same - substitute Angelina.

thinG! sorry

it's so easy for women to get sex..they've never had to pay for it..i'm sure if the demand was there they'd be pleny of men on street corners.....i don't think every man that visits a prostitute is a vile woman hater, pleny of women are treated appallingly by their own husbands.

It's a lot more complex than that, dittany. It's to do with developing confidence and respect and feeling at home with the whole idea of having a relationship with a woman. It's very easy for me, as a well-adjusted adult in a loving relationship, to dismiss the idea of using prostitution. It may not be so easy for someone else. That's it because my wife "provides" what one could "provide" (what a distasteful idea, one which has come entirely from you) but because being in a relationship for 15 years gives you a different way of looking at the world. if DW and I split up for whatever reason, I hardly think the first thing I would do is go out and find a prostitute. So I'll ask you politely not to rephrase my posts, thanks.

all your posts are against men, they can do nothing right, just like elizabetth

I'm leaving this thread, am getting too wound up

Without wishing to be dog/bone about it, UD, I still don't see how that point has anything to do with prostitution. In fact, the conflation of 'some people are single and miserable' with 'some people use prostitutes' is harmful, IMO - it's one of the ways in which excuses get made for men who use/abuse prostitutes. Even if that's not what you meant. The two things just aren't related; they only become related in the minds of people who think prostitute use/abuse is fine and dandy.

darkpunk, there are plenty of women who don't have as much sex as they'd like. There are plenty of women who are unwillingly celibate for years on end, or indeed for all their lives.

that should say that's NOT because my wife, etc... I am Typo Central today, doh....

policywonk, what I think is dangerous and damging is the subtle conflation of "use" and "abuse" which you cunningly slip in.

Plenty of men are "unwillingly celibate" too.

policywonk; yes, that's true..but i know if i wanted sex i could go out tonight and get it..no problem, and that's probably true for the vast majority of women.

I'm not sure you could, darkpunk. It's not quite as easy as that, I found when I was single and shagging around. (I had a lot of sex, mind - and I am a personable sort of a woman with very big norks - but I cannot say I pulled every time.)

I don't like to be told what I should and shouldn't "examine". But thanks. My argument is clear as it stands.

Well I guess we just have a fundamental disagreement UQD, because I think that any 'use' of prostitutes is an abuse of a human being.

And I agree with dittany - I think your explanation of your original post is pretty disingenuous.