thelondonpaper - apparently visiting prostitutes is a perfectly normal thing to do...

[ChukkyPig]

Yesterday they ran a piece in the "columnist" section where people can send stories in.

It was a piece by "john" who basically justified his use of prositutes on the grounds that modern women are awful and won't look at him so what's he supposed to do.

here

I was a bit but thought, never mind, the letters page tomorrow will be full of letters picking holes in the piece.

Today the letters page was crammed with responses to the article, ALL of which said that it was sad the guy was so lonely, it was understandable that he used prostitutes, that it was fine these days, and that anyway modern women are shallow bitches so what do they expect men to do.

I was a bit shocked TBH that the paper didn't print a single letter mentioning exploitation, trafficing, that women aren't awful and what's he on about etc but no.

Anyway the paper had picked this as a "hot topic" so I go online expecting to see some anti-prostitution comments. But there aren't! One person (out of about 30) mentions trafficing/coercion but that's it. The rest of the responses are sympathetic and understanding, mostly saying that there are decent women out there.

Where's the moral outrage? I know it's a rag but this is bizarre all the same.

I have posted a comment but oddly it hasn't appeared yet - maybe it's being moderated - or maybe for some reason they are only displaying sympathetic responses.

I am having an outraged moment - please feel free to join me...

And - do publications have to give a balanced view on their letters pages? or are they allowed to just print one point of view? Guessing the latter...

Ugly men find girlfriends. So do stupid men. Even unpleasant men find girlfriends. There's someone for everyone. On the whole. If he honestly can't find someone to be with I'd suspect the problem lies within him rather than in the materialistic mean spirited modern woman whoever she is. It might be he can't get the girls he wants and thinks the women who like him aren't good enough for him. Or he might just like the guaranteed no-strings sex that he gets from prostitutes.

I still think it's more the exuding desperation. That can be a real turn-off for either gender. I think he genuinely does want a girlfriend.

Dittany all trafficking and enslavement is an abomination. I have never said otherwise.

And yes, I do think the willing sex workers should be listened to. Some of them FYI are already involved in initiatives to help the unwilling, for one thing.

The article is pretty sad, but of course editors want to sell papers so you're always going to get a skewed perspective.

It's important to remember that the majority of men are pleasant and respectful and would find the whole idea of visiting a prostitute revolting.

the majority of men - yes but when estimates run anything between 10 - 17% - then that is a sizeable number. some go only once and dont repeat it. some have been once or twice and stopped. others go on an almost weekly basis. that amounts to alot of unwanted sex, rape and violence. I think it is a big concern when we have a large amount of men who are willing to be part of this. what concerns is more is the level of stigma attached to the women by others, quite often other women. are they then happy with the fact that potential and current male partners may well be using women through prostitution or others forms of sexual exploitatio.

solid - i know there are alot of what you say are willing women /sex workers, who are involved in supporting others. support services need to be there for harm reduction and minimisation but there should also be clear protocols to help women come to terms with what has happened and exit when ready. that can take many years - some would say around 7yrs, to exit with alot of relapses in between. even those who at one stage called it their choice, can struggle to leave and cope with the fall out. alot of them find it difficult to be around women who are still involved so sometimes it is better for them not to use services where staff and volunteers are still involved themselves.

I don't think anyone has said they're 'happy' with the idea of current and potential partners using prostitutes - what a weird idea.

It's difficult to get accurate stats on something like this, so the 10% figure has to be taken for what it is. Same with a lot of other stats around sexual behaviours. However the fact remains that the majority of men would no doubt be disgusted at the idea of paying for sex, just as many women would be disgusted by it.

If I'm honest, it's not so much that I would be disgusted at the idea of paying for sex, more that I can't really see the point as I don't think it would be that enjoyable with a person who wasn't enjoying it herself. I'd feel the same way about a non-sexual "escort".

If the violence and coercion were to be removed from it, and only willing individuals took up sex work, there would be nothing wrong with it. Lots of people have sex for reasons other than desire, all the time - cash is as good a reason as any.

I'm a man and I'm in the 'Why would you want to have sex with someone you didn't care for' camp. However I remember being young (just about) and back then even though I never paid a prostitute I'd have had sex with any girl who'd have me. The urgency hasn't faded, but what I want from a relationship has changed. If I were 'deprived' of sex through circumstances now I'd just go without.

I see the guy in the article as immature and (as I think someone said) his own desperation is probably making it difficult to find a partner. I have heard people ask "how do I get a sexual partner" before and my reply would be "stop looking for one. Look for a friend instead and sex will happen naturally in good time"

Obviously coercion is evil. I'd quite happily hang rapists and if a prostitute was forced into it by trafficers then they are rapists even if they don't touch her themselves.

The customer is not a rapist though. If he has no reason to believe she is being forced and he isn't forcing her then it's not abuse at all. If both sides are willing participants it is (again I think this has been said) no worse than a massage, manicure etc. I suspect many hairdressers would rather be doing something more enriching.

The 'economic coercion' argument is beside the point. In this country we have a welfare state so no one need starve. If they feel coerced because they want a big car or lots of drugs that isn't really coercion is it.

Women are single all the time; they don't think they're entitled to use someone else's body for the purposes of masturbation.>>
Really? I was under the impression that some women used prostitutes too so I'm not sure what that's about.

I think the main problem that solidgold is missing is that the majority of prostitutes start work at the age of 13 (75%, Women Resource Centre 2008), 70% come from care homes and 45% report having been abused at home (Home Office 2006). More than half have been raped or sexually assaulted, and 75% have been physically assaulted by buyers or pimps (Home Office 2004) - when I was fifteen I was offered drugs by a boy that waited outside school for girls coming out. One of my friends warned me that he had a 'girlfriend' who now sold her body to pay for the drugs she now needed. Health and safety would have a field day over the risk factors involved in prostitution, so please don't keep fooling yourself that it's a job like any other or that most of those 13 year olds came by the drugs themselves ... God you're naive.

I've read this sort of arguement before and its basically someone trying to make their sleazy habit more acceptable. I don't actually have any problem with prostitution as long as it is restrcted and controlled - I wouldn't want to see it fully legalised because it would expand and where I live, we already have tolerance zones and licensed brothels operating as saunas.

I do suspect men who are regular users of prostitutes have a somewhat skewed view of women, and I'm a bit suspicous of the ones that are very interested in prostitution - I remember working for local government where two of the councillors were forced to resign for kerb crawling - no-one believed their arguements that they were monitoring prostitutes with a view to helping them.

I also get bored of the example given of how Holland deals with prostitutes - its being reeled back in now as they have found the majority of prostitutes are now trafficked and have drugs problems, and they are going for increased restriction rather than tolerance.

Apologies if I'm going off topic a bit, or if it's been mentioned earlier, but OP reminded me that I'm none too keen on this new regular column in the London Evening Standard. Talk about normalising the sex industry.