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Holy moly - Congress has voted against US bail out

157 replies

dinny · 29/09/2008 19:37

Goodness me

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dinny · 29/09/2008 20:12

prob best place for it

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CoteDAzur · 29/09/2008 20:13

29-Sep-2008 19:03
Equities: US markets are strongly disappointed after Congress decision. Currently Dow drops 543 points, 4.90% @ 10599. S&P falling 80 points, 6.60% @ 1132.95 and Nasdaq100 is knocked 130.62 points, 7.88% @ 1540.20. One of the big laggards, Apple is smashed 18%, @ 105.14 and by sectors S&P500 Financials -9.29%, Energy -9.37% and Materials -8.05%.

19:12
US BAILOUT: Democratic leaders in the House of Representatives are going to try to put together another financial rescue bill after a $700 billion plan was rejected in a House vote, a senior House Democrat said. Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland said he expected the leadership to advance another bill, but that he had no idea when it would happen.(CNBC)

CatIsSleepy · 29/09/2008 20:17

sorry for going on about this but if it is so straightforward to pass mortgage debt onto other lenders why did the US gov have to bail out Fanny Mae and Freddy wotsit, the biggest mortgage lenders?

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 29/09/2008 20:18

I don't think I can bear to get out of bed tomorrow...

Quattrocento · 29/09/2008 20:18

Oh well - I've never seen Wall St crash ...

justaboutsensible · 29/09/2008 20:19

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noddyholder · 29/09/2008 20:21

I am going to put it in northern rock i think

morningpaper · 29/09/2008 20:22

SCREEEEEEEEEEAM

noddyholder · 29/09/2008 20:22

I have no faith in the 35k guarantee tbh as I think it was devised for a whole different scenario to this

CatIsSleepy · 29/09/2008 20:22

mind you i quite like seeing Bush squirm
but am not sure i like it so much i want to see the collapse of western capitalism

'If a business is not viable, it should go to the wall.'
a question georgimama...if your bank was going bust, would you be happy to see it go to the wall?

i do think that the banks have brought this on themselves and it doesn't seem right to spend taxpayers' money digging them out of the hole they got themselves into...but at the same time, it ultimately comes down to ordinary people losing money and that doesn't seem right either

FAQ · 29/09/2008 20:23

times like this I'm glad I have no money as I have nothing to lose

justaboutsensible · 29/09/2008 20:23

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MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 29/09/2008 20:24

NH - I belive the max you can put in one on-line instant access account in NR is 250k - but presume you and DH could each have a separate account for that much if it would take you over.

justaboutsensible · 29/09/2008 20:24

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morningpaper · 29/09/2008 20:25

Did anyone read this morning's missive from the Michael Moore camp:

"Friends,

Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies who must soon vacate the White House are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as they can on their way out the door.

No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:

"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking for ways to profit from it.

"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.

"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.

"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."

Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.

The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.

And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.

Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?

It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it, it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills. Let me state this simply: If we had had universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.

This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and save us all another half-trillion dollars!

I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country. They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:

  1. Call or e-mail Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take. Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.
  1. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations that are taking place all over the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).
  1. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. (click here to find their phone numbers). Tell them what you told Senator Obama.

When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift on a silver platter. No more! Not again!

Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
MichaelMoore.com

P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.

P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the crime of the century. You have to call them now and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get anything good done when President Obama is in the White House. THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW."

expatinscotland · 29/09/2008 20:25

Oh, Quattro, it's a scary sight!

I worked for a HUGE securities company during the last sort of crash.

You could have heard a pin drop on the 5th floor and every eye was glued to Bloomberg.

Never seen the like until 911, as our traders and their support staff - all NYers hired over - got there in shifts to cover the various market openings and were all waiting at the lifts as people got in to start their days, saying only, 'There will be no trading today.'

noddyholder · 29/09/2008 20:25

I am going to open 2 accounts tonight.Now who thinks the website will be bombarded?

morningpaper · 29/09/2008 20:25

sorry that was longer than it looked

justaboutsensible · 29/09/2008 20:25

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georgimama · 29/09/2008 20:27

I don't own a bank.

Yes, if Natwest, with whom I bank, is unable meet its liabilities, someone will snap it up for its true value. I have no problem with that.

This isn't the collapse of western capitalism, the problem with capitalism is that like communism, no one has actually ever given it a proper go. Free markets are fine by the political elite when the good times roll and the electorate attribute the prosperity they feel to the government of the day, but when that elastic band starts pinging back, they clamour to intervene. Don't intervene, the market will stabilise of its own accord.

Don't hear Gordon going on so much about "an end to Tory boom and bust" now do we?

dinny · 29/09/2008 20:27

Gordon Brown going to speak soon

God knows what drivel he'll spout

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CatIsSleepy · 29/09/2008 20:28

LOL@ 'I don't own a bank'

you don't say

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 29/09/2008 20:29

You never know, she might be Mrs Roddy Fleming

dinny · 29/09/2008 20:30

exactly, GM - let the cycle take its course

give help to those people who need it, who are scraping a living NOT to the loaded bankers who've been getting six figure bonuses for years - most are enjoying mortgage-free living anyway

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CatIsSleepy · 29/09/2008 20:30

i don't have much faith in the market tbh
not when a bunch of bankers can cause all this trouble

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