Russian agression in Georgia

[AtheneNoctua]

BBC story

What do you think Western Europe's response should be Russia's invasion of Georgia. This is of course nothing to do with protecting their newly created citizens and everything to do with getting control of the BTC pipeline.

Scary stuff if you ask me. I mean just how much do you want to pay for a liter of petrol. For those who don't know, BTC is the only pipeline which carries oil from the Caspian to Europe and does not pass through Russia. How many taps are we willing to put in Russia's control? I was glad to read Bush has stood up for Georgia, as has Cheney. Why isn't Western Europe doing the same? Are they afraid of Russia? Or do they think it's okay for Russia to go around invading countries so they can control the flow of oil to the West?

Russia needed an excuse and Georgia orchestrated one. Morons.

Right, so it is as clear as mud! I really need to get over this bout of insomnia because nothing makes sense at the moment.

I find it amazing that Georgia is continually described as 'west looking'. I can tell you from direct personal experience that your average Joe Schmoe isn't. But the current president is. If Georgia hadn't gone crashing in there, Russia wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing. There's a difference between Russia PLANNING it for years and Russia EXPECTING it for years, ever since the Georgian pres started chucking his weight around and saying he wanted to force S. Ossetia to be part of Georgia good and proper. When the people don't want to be. Got to go now, damn it - just when the debate is starting!

BBBee - provoked and manipulated?? With respect, that isn't true. By instigating the aggression, Georgia have put themselves in the wrong. But must go now!

It's interesting that this is the first time we've had international internet access when a crises has evolved in Eastern Europe/Russia.

In the past, whe have only had the information fed to us by the British media who (for whatever reason, who knows what their agenda is) have always portrayed Russia as the bully.

Now people have internet access, thousands of people in the region are telling it like it is on internet forums, including this one.

There are no good guys in this fight - only 2 baddies. Gorgian President assumed the west would back him if he picked a fight with Russia just because he'd applied to join NATO and EU. What does he think we are - his own personal army?

Georgian president ought to be put on trial for crimes against humanity and genocide, but that's another story (again, not one you'll hear in the British press).

Well LadyThompson it is through people like yourself, people who have actually been to these countries, to shed light for those of us who are only getting this one side of the story.

And if my befuddled brain can see the bias of the media...

On news tonight said there was now a ceasefire in the region.

Was quite amazed to hear the ordinary Georgian citizens being interviewed who thought they had a god-given right to European intervention.

I honestly hope now that Georgia is not allowed to join NATO. We really don't need warmongerers. I mean what on earth has Georgia got to contribute to the EU (apart from the obvious, oil).

The poor citizens have suffered and watched their homes being destroyed and their loved ones killed and for what?

Nothing.

Does Georgia even have any significant oil? There is just the Baku-Ceyhan pipeline that passes through it, iirc.

Georgian government must have thought that US & EU would support them in annexing South Ossetia to Georgia proper. Otherwise they wouldn't have picked a fight they can never win on their own.

Not actually sure whether Georgians have their own oil. I thought it was just the pipeline as CoteDAzur says, but I may be wrong.

I don't, by any means, imagine for one second that Russia are whiter than white and their response has clearly been excessive. But the Georgian president took a gamble on Western backing - quite a cynical one in my book - and he wasn't just gambling with the stakes of his own country but those of the wider world. And to hear Bush on the radio at the weekend, talking about how 'we must preserve Georgian sovereignty' made me want to hurl.

If the people of Southern Ossetia really wanted to be part of Georgia, it would be a different story. But they never, ever have. I do see that Russia and Georgia are tussling over it like two dogs over a sausage, because both want to extent their zone of influence (Russia love it that a bit of what is internationally recognised as being part of Georgia want to still be part of the Russian Federation, and Georgia are furious with South Ossetia for precisely the same reason and it's a real thorn in the side), but surely, the best solution is precisely how they were muddling along before: the region was jointly controlled by Georgia, Russia and the Southern Ossetians themselves. Which is how it would have stayed, but for the Georgian president forcing the issue by invading Russian airspace

BBBee - You have a naive view on world politics. It's rather sweet.

"they went up against russia becuase they had no choice"

It doesn't work that way. "Had no choice" is Iraq having to fight US when the latter invaded them. Georgia chose to clash military power with Russia and they didn't have to.

If a country of 4.5 mn people goes out of its way to challenge Russia in the military arena, you better believe one of two things: (1) Its leadership is made up of daydreaming idiots, or (2) They thought Europe and/or US would back them up.

"They had 2,000 troops in Iraq and Bush had given support to them in the past. So not a 'god given right' but a founded notion that the world would not let russia pass this by."

Georgia's 2000 troops are in Iraq for exactly the same reason why certain East European countries put soldiers there - so that US would approve their NATO membership.

As for the world not letting Russia get away with things, I have one word for you:

CHECHNYA.

Sorry that first line came out a bit patronising. I didn't mean it that way.

Read some Game Theory, BBBee.

It seems that Bush has now sent forces into Georgia

Is this just a gesture after a ceasefire had been agreed? I really hope so and that there is no escalation of the conflict.

Funny how little mention has been made of the casualties from the initial Georgian attack on the South Ossettian capital.

I suggested you read Game Theory so you will better understand the world of international politics, which has little to do with countries "allowed to be proud" and "standing up against bullies". It might help to think of it as a game of chess.

The world totally sat back re Russian aggression in Chechnya. The world did nothing but sit back and watch. Yes, they did resort to terrorism several times. How else can they fight Russia, with tanks and armies?

Would the world sit back and watch Chechnya's independence crushed by Russia and its nation dominated for decades if they had an oil pipeline supplying the west?

Chew that over before lecturing us about how proud countries have the right to be and how the world should help them "against a bully".

Does anyone actually know why Russia has gone in?

MT - my garbled understanding is that Russia was very displeased when Kosovo's independence was recognised a few months ago. They warned that it would have implications elsewhere and this may have contributed to what happened. There are certainly analogies between Kosovo and South Ossetia.

South Ossetia has long been a de facto independent state Russian peacekeeping forces had long been in the region. On the 8th of August Georgia invaded and Russia responded, arguably disproportionately.