Obama and McCain - your thoughts/opinions on the American presidential candidates

[Earlybird]

Is Obama all charisma and no substance? Or is he a breath of fresh air politically speaking - offering hope for real change? Is he politically experienced enough to be president, or is he largely the X-Factor presidential candidate (huge momentum created by media adoration/hype but at some point the bubble will burst revealing a manufactured candidate?)

Is McCain too old, too conservative and/or too dull? All substance and no charisma - so doomed to fail with the media/public due to importance of image/soundbites? Or a man of experience and integrity who will guide the country with a steady and experienced hand?

As a Mumsnet member based in America, am curious to hear how the candidates appear to those who don't get their news through the US media. Am particularly interested atm as Obama is in the midst of his International tour.

Interesting fact: minimum wage in America has this month increased to $6.55 per hour, and Obama proposes to take it up to $9.50 an hour within two years of being elected in order to help those low income earners who are currently being 'squeezed'.

... which means that when those earning $9.50 an hour then they will finally fall into the tax bracket to pay all those taxes he's gonna be proposing (granted it's fulltime). wellfare is soo much harder to get when democrates are in office but i'm glad thats the case.

From MKG on why she does not trust Obama , "always going on about his "white grandmother" not his grandmother his "white" grandmother"

Why is that surprising? America is a nation that was built on the mantle of racism - whites in power and blacks as slaves. This has inculcated the mindset of how both groups still view each other and even many of the most liberal whites will still view blacks as inferior to themselves - they just don't have the courage to admit it.

I don't blame Obama for trading on the fact that his grandmother is white. The truth is is that the first thing whites notice about Obama is his skin colour and for too many of them, their opinion of him is shaped by that alone and this is in 2008!!!

Obama is far more intelligent and has more to offer than that imbecile who is President now. Those questioning his credentials because of his lack experience blah, blah, blah, how many white Presidents had the experience to do the job in the first place? Those comments are typical of how blacks have to be 100x better than whites to be considered worthy of a position.

For those interested in learning more about Obama, read is autobiography Dreams of my Father which he was asked to write after being elected the first black President of the Harvard Law review (beating 18 other candidates) in 1990.

I pray that Obama is elected because his election will be a pivotal moment not only for American politics but for world politics too, imo.

Another interesting article here about his leadership qualities which he refined as President of the Harvard Law Review.

actually...
even if Obama somehow becomes President, it won't be that pivotal.

In your opinion

Half of my family is American and the sad truth is that there are large chunks of America which would rather vote for a goat than a black man.

I started off prefering Obama to Clinton, but by the end I came to the view that Clinton had a real programme for social reform and Obama had a lot of rhetoric. I was genuinely sorry when she lost the nomination at the end.

I find that after months of seeing both of them in the press, that I am not sure of what the substance of either of them is. However, I suspect that the presidency will go to McCain for no better reason than he is white and appears to be more of a known quanitity. I also believe that once he gets in to office he will trun out to be far less liberal than he currently appears.

Considering slavery, the Civil rights movement and that America is still racially divided (economically, politically and societally), the election of a black President will be a pivotal moment for that nation.

To say otherwise is quite frankly dumb

it wouldn't be pivotal for two reasons:

Obama (if he wins) won't play the race card in office...the majority of his supporters will have been black. Also, most black people in America who already don't identify with him(again, if he wins) will say: his mother was white, and he was raised 'white'.

yes, he'll be the first black president in color, but not from a typical 'black' background, education or even tax bracket. theres a reason why even black college students don't feel they 'have' to support obama. He's had it just as easy as the white candidates. Sure he's got darker skin and a less than waspy name.

If he had gone to Howard University instead of Harvard University, IF he had to deal with his family/friends/teachers having less expectation of him because he was raised in an inner city area where the majority came from the hardships associated with single families with less than average education than maybe he would be a pivotal candidate.

if you want to talk about pivotal black figures, perhaps looking up Ben Carson is a good idea. He WAS pivotal in the eyes of everyone.

One of the interesting differences between the US and much of Europe is that there is a very different approach to the discussion of politics (and perhaps religion?) in the two regions. Whilst we do believe in the secret ballot in Europe (no-one is obliged to discuss their political leanings), a person's personal political standpoint is not regarded with the same reverence that it seems to be in the US.

Off topic, but something that has been a source of recurring interest to me and my American husband.

I would love for Obama win the election, but I am not that hopeful. I have travelled a fair bit in the US with American dh, and have encountered some fairly shocking attitudes about race from people that I had considered to be well-educated. Dh will be voting (overseas) but we are unsure about whether the overseas ballot is even taking into consideration. Maybe someone knows?

I'm voting through the embassy in London. The directions I was told (but may change closer to the date) say that I'll have to submit my vote a little bit early.

they're going to send me a packet in October with all the information. sorry, thats not very helpful is it?

Agree with eandz. His presidency wouldn't be that pivotal for those reasons.

As someone who could care less what color our president is, I'm insulted that he's playing the race card.
I see him as having very little substance. I also think he's incredibly naive if he thinks he's going to get elected and change Washington.
Al Gore was asked last week if he would be accept a VP spot or become Energy Czar and he said no. He said no because he believes he can change America more outside of politics than inside. He admitted to the beauracracy being too much to allow the changes we need.
So how does Obama think he can magically make everything better?

sorry, just re read my post...

most of obama's supporters will have been white (if he wins).

Bluebutterfly - you make an interesting point re: EU and US discussion of politics/religion.

I wonder how much of that is a person's political leanings changing/not changing. Do people's political parties change more in the US or the UK?

I don't know, but I wouldn't dream of voting other than Democrat. My partner though, although supported Labor, might consider voting Lib Dem or Green at next election.

Oh, and when Hillary was still in the race, I was talking to my grandmother in NM. I was saying that I felt as if I should support Hillary from a feminist stance, and she said, 'shame on you; being a feminist means the ability to choose' Ouch.

Obama has the youth vote (18-30) in the bag

He needs to work on the black vote in the South.

He has fewer Jewish supporters than any other Democrat ever (he's around 60%) and the norm is 75%. Although he's still in the majority he needs to bring it up.

I think the Latino vote will go to McCain with his history on Immigration issues.

I think women will go to for McCain.

I think their running mate choices will be crucial.

yeah, i'm really interested to see who they choose as running mates.

obama definitely has the cool factor.

Rumor has it that McCain will announce before the Olympics, but I think he'll wait until after Obama at the end of August.

If I were McCain I would pick Mike Huckabee.

If I were Obama it would be either Bill Richardson or Ken Salazar from Colorado. That would give him a fighting change for the Latino Vote.

here there are grave doubts about how he will be received internationally.

obama and Salazar ...

do you remember when someone named Wynona La Duke ran for vp in 2004? i think she was for the green party or something.

The name is very familiar, but she got 0 press time.

Oh and let's not forget the Nater factor, because he is running in certain states.

eandz - I am not really understanding your point, perhaps you can clarify it for me?

You seem to be saying that, if he wins, the majority of Obama's supporters will have been black (indicating that he does have widespread support from the black communities in the US) and yet his election will not be pivotal because he will not represent "typical" black people. Black people in the US are a minority (large one, but still, demographically speaking, a minority). If he wins the US elections and the majority of his supporters are black (don't fully understand how that could even happen unless a lot of white people and other ethnic groups simply do not vote for anyone at all) then he must represent something positive to much of the "typical?" black population. What might be pivotal, if he wins, ime is the realisation by millions of Americans, conservative and liberal, black and white, is that prescriptive notions of what it means to be a certain "race" are utterly meaningless, surely?

Poverty, social deprivation,lack of education, lack of opportunity, ignorance, racism - these problems are universal to humanity.

Haven't read thread but I think that we should all be allowed to vote seeing as whatever happens in US seems to affect the rest of us (and it really pisses me off)

again? really nader is running again?

i'll always have a special place for him in my heart though, we share a birthday.

"yes, he'll be the first black president in color, but not from a typical 'black' background, education or even tax bracket".

Mmm, I wonder how many white presidents came from "typical white background, education and tax bracket"?

Do you think Dubya's background is typical of most white Americans??

As for being insulted that he plays the race card, when Americans of all hues start to see the person rather than the skin colour first, that argument will have merit. Most Americans see Obama's skin colour first, not the man. America has a huge problem with race and I don't blame him for pointing out that his mother/grandmother are white.

I'm black, a scientist, a woman and hold a senior postion in my job. When I first started my job, I was asked if I was the new clerk! Why not ask me what my job is?

When I was at university, I turned up early one day for lectures and this woman called to me and accused me of being late. She thought I was the cleaner. All she saw was a black woman and to her that equated to being a cleaner.

I imagine this problem is magnified a million times more in a racially divided nation like the USA and Obama knows this. Good on him I say. The guy will always be judged on his skin colour my many Americans and I applaud him for highlighting his Caucasian credentials to demonstrate the point that given the opportunity, he could help to bridge the colour divide.

Spokette, your point highlights one of the problems pervading the race issue in the US, but also in other places.

The problems encountered by many black people in the US (poverty, lack of education, real and perceived lack of opportunity) may define the lives of many black people (as they do for some white people too), but it is wrong to turn that around on itself and make it a definition of what it means to be black - something that it may be easy to do (afterall if we make the problem stem from something we can't change like skin colour, we don't have to feel any pressure to do something to change it).

Obama, like many black American's, has a mixed race heritage - the whole point is that none of that should matter if we recognise that he is an intelligent, forward thinking, accomplished man.

What would be pivotal would be for Americans (black & white) to recognise that those qualities belong to humanity - they are not exclusive to an ethnic group.