Obama and McCain - your thoughts/opinions on the American presidential candidates

[Earlybird]

Is Obama all charisma and no substance? Or is he a breath of fresh air politically speaking - offering hope for real change? Is he politically experienced enough to be president, or is he largely the X-Factor presidential candidate (huge momentum created by media adoration/hype but at some point the bubble will burst revealing a manufactured candidate?)

Is McCain too old, too conservative and/or too dull? All substance and no charisma - so doomed to fail with the media/public due to importance of image/soundbites? Or a man of experience and integrity who will guide the country with a steady and experienced hand?

As a Mumsnet member based in America, am curious to hear how the candidates appear to those who don't get their news through the US media. Am particularly interested atm as Obama is in the midst of his International tour.

From growing up in the states and living between the north east and then the south, those racist comments never seem to end; but then again, when I moved to London those comments have been applied to Pakistani/Asian communities with just as much frequency...although I do think that England is more open to a non white leader than America will ever be.

As an American (from NY area) living in the UK, I am really hopeful for Obama to win, but cannot understand how anyone could have voted for Bush in the first place and think he stole both elections anyway. I think where I'm from is a world apart from lots of other parts of the States unfortunately and there are some really ignorant people out there. That said, I like to think of Obama as post-racial.

Yeah, I never understood how Bush won both elections either. Everyone I knew was voting for Kerry last time around, in all the mock elections at the schools Kerry was winning too. Never understood how Bush won. Don't think I ever will.

....'although I do think that England is more open to a non white leader than America will ever be.'

eandz - really? Please elaborate on why you think that is true. As far as I recall, there has been little racial diversity in UK politics at a national level. Your comment surprises me (unless I'm blanking out some obvious people). Whether 'token' or not, Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell have been highly effective/visible in positions of real power.

Underated - In my limited experience being back in America for a year, the segregation that exists (and of course it exists) is as much voluntary as enforced. I live in a 'white' neighbourhood, but when an African American couple bought a house down the street recently, everyone simply welcomed a new neighbour. (btw if it's particularly relevant, they bought the newest, largest and most expensive house in the area.) I've not heard any negative coments, and don't know of any negative feelings.

I know my personal experience may not be indicative of what happens everywhere, but after 19 years out of America I have been pleasantly surprised at how much more tolerant a place it is now. My conservative part of the country doesn't bat an eyelid at integrated neighbourhoods, gay parents, etc. But, that being said - I carefully chose a tolerant, open-minded community....and the other sort certainly still exist, without a doubt.

Earlybird,
to be honest, (and this will sound stupid...very very very stupid) but the reason I think the UK would be more open to a non white leader is because they've had successful female prime ministers.

Although Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell have been major players in recent politics a good amount of people see them as ornamental.

The general public in America are ok with integration that you surely don't see in London. Whereas like your Black neighbors, my parents (Dad is Indian) are well liked and accepted/were welcomed with open arms when they moved to Texas.

Thing is, if you have all the status symbols:good brand lux cars, the watches, keep a well maintained lawn and personal appearance and mingle well with your neighbors your not really considered 'non white' until you do something like slaughter a cow in the street or something. Hanuka and Eid lights are well accepted and everyone loves the baskets of cookies/muffins/baklava and jello that are at block parties.

actually, having said all that, the part of houston my family is in, open gay relationships are still a no no.

As an American living in the US, it will be McCain. I'm a democrat and I love John McCain.

I don't like Obama. We all know he's mixed race, and his past would indicate that he has a lot of African-American influence. Yet in speeches he is always going on about his "white grandmother" not his grandmother his "white" grandmother. Nice way to make white voters feel safe. He's playing the race card both ways when it's convenient for him, and I don't trust that. I think that if he wasn't black he wouldn't have made it to the nomination, solely based on credentials. People are excited that he's new and fresh, and aside from being a great orator there isn't much there.

He's all about the flash.

we've had less qualified presidents.

This is true, and it blows my mind how Americans don't vote for a good candidate when they see one. I honestly wish Bill Richardson had won the nomination, he was my favorite democrat out there.

re Segregation:

I live on the border of 2 neighbourhoods/ communities. One is associated with an affluent well-respected university. This means that the area is very mixed - there are academics and grad-students from all over the world. It makes the neighbourhood very diverse and accepting - I know several couples who are quite openly gay and no-one bats an eyelid. Housing is ridiculously expensive. The very few people who can afford to buy are professors or medics. This is Obama's neighbourhood. He owns one of the big houses.

Technically, I live in the next neighbourhood - my block is very mixed - African American locals and lots of University-affiliated white families. If I cross the street, I am not welcome. Kids in the playground will say, "We don't like you because you are White" . Gangs and gun crime is a huge problem. My neighbour has had stray bullets through her window twice.

In the 70s, the University bought as much surrounding land as they could, knocked down the buildings and created a sort of no-man's land to keep people separate. Locals were forced out of their homes. The college put a lot of money into their own community but none into the surrounding area. This of course created bad feelings among locals, many of whom had lived here for generations. The University are now back-tracking (because they want to buy land in the deprived areas they neglected years ago, not because they are making amends). But they have a difficult job. There is a lot of resentment. This is very similar to the situation at the last place I lived too.

So, I agree, some segregation is natural - when people immigrate, they want to find people from the same country to feel 'at home'. But some is forced.

As an American living in the UK, I get the British viewpoint, and the personal viewpoint from my family - all Democrats. In fact not sure I know any Republicans

Re: Obama. How does one get experience to be President anyway?

I was just thinking that... I don't know one person who admits to voting for Bush either. So where are all these people who made him president?

well lets look at the credentials Bush presented with the first time.

We know lots who voted for Bush the first time... but then we lived in Nebraska and dh used to be a Republican, till I infected him with my subversive Lefty views. We even know people who voted for Bush a second time, including some of dh's old friends, it made him very sad. First time was more of a Right v. Left (well, Centre!), but the second time...

Many people believe that Obama will raise taxes significantly, and are McCain supporters on that fact alone.

Here is an email currently circulating that compares the programs proposed by the two candidates (obviously written from the Republican perspective):

DATA ON TAXES & PROPOSED CHANGES IN TAXES AFTER 2008 GENERAL ELECTION

Time to consider your pocketbook:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN:
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA:
28% on profit from ALL home sales

DIVIDEND TAX
MCCAIN : 15% (no change)

OBAMA : 39.6%

INCOME TAX (find your bracket)
MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reverse all tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine

yeah, but don't you guys think the taxes need to be raised with the current state of things? poor people don't pay tax anyway.

Yes, taxes do need to be raised. Or changed. But what would be better would be eliminating all the bureaucracy required for everything and for the people running the country (and each state) to be held accountable, not cheat, lie and steal which seems all too common.

Yes, something definitely needs to be done about the deficit and raising taxes is the only way.

I find it mind-boggling that the Republicans have abolished inheritance tax, and think it should be reinstated - though that wouldn't be enough to eliminate the deficit.

yeah, i agree UnderRated, but in my novice opinion the bureaucratic hypocrisy and corruption usually surface most in Republican administrations.

So, how has the UK media reported Obama's London visit? What is the reaction?

Obama in the UK : usual 'special relationship' stuff. How Americans have a special place in their hearts for the British.

All very special

I agree that self-segregation exists. People are most comfortable where they 'fit in'. While races seem to get along very well on the surface, older people seem to hold on to ideas they grew up with. I don't think that middle America's grandfathers are ready for a black man, a homosexual or a female.

I was living in the UK during the last election, and I constantly heard comments about how Bush would never win again, who was dumb enough to vote for him, etc. This was most shocking as the comments didn't come from friends, but strangers who heard my US accent!

People vote for their personal good first, and the greater good second. My family is closely tied to the aerospace industry, so republican=job. Nearly everyone from business school is republican and worried about protecting personal wealth. I've only encountered mass liberals as an undergraduate student where people were altruistic and concerned with the world as a whole. Basically, the majority of people that I know likely voted for Bush in the last two elections (although we would never discuss it in RL).

Would the UK be more accepting of a non-white Prime Minister? My dh is stuffy old English, and I would say definitely not based on his attitudes. I have no idea about the country in general.

My family, who all live in the US, are all Republicans.

We never discuss politics or religion.

Right expat- it is considered incredibly rude to make more than a casual comment and you would NEVER insult someone for voting one way or the other. At least in my circle...

We just don't discuss it.

I know their leanings, and they know mine.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to puzzle out how they voted.

But it's none of my business and I do agree with my father in that he very actively campaigns not for a candidate, but to make sure as many people as possible exercise their right to vote.

As he told us over and over, 'If you didn't vote, you can't complain.'

Whenever I see Obama on the news out and about I'm always terrified that some nutjob is going to plug him. I hope he wears a bullet-proof vest, or at least has security men with lightning reflexes.