Yet another report about moral values in decline...

[MrsThierryHenry]

It's in today's Times: here

What surprised me was not so much the report about children not learning moral values from the parents, but some of the postings beneath the article. One poor chap says:

'I have taught my children what I learned in the 1980's, as teenager plus, that you look after number one and the rest can go to hell, and do not believe anyone who tells you different. This ethos is still applicable and relevant today.'

Surely this man has been badly hurt and needs counselling? I've encountered many people like him over the years and each one has turned out to be bitter and twisted, compared to people who have a less selfish attitude to life.

quell surpize

he blames thatcher by the sound of it.

Is that really true? I would have said that most people I know have string moral values (and it would certainly be the case for everyone on MN ).

It's easy to say 'ooh, everything in decline', surely the answer is to look to your own moral compass and make sure you teach your kids?

there have always been selfish bastards and arseholes, but not sure that the proportion has increased...

String? Strong

i think that nostalgia does have a part to play, but i truly think that for the working and underclass - tings have gone wildly downhill - truly.

yes, community networks have been hurt (esp loss of industry and all the structures that went with it).

Might stay away from Rainham then after Duncan's comments.

'Underclasses' have gone widely downhill as you put it as they are now 3rd generation benefit recipients - some children will have never seen anyone in their family work. Celebrity culture and consumerism certainly has a large part to play. I think a lack of personal responsibility is a big factor too.

Fio, tiz true,

i moved 6 years ago - DH visits rarely, he recently went back ooop north to find angs on the street, police helecopters, and three yoofs knocking at the door threatening to beat up neices BF ( for no reason ) The literally tried to rush dh to get into the house. SIL was terrified.

Dh thought they were funny and told them to go home beofre he ripped off their heads and shat down their necks.

"glad we moved" he said when he came home

i agree rebel mum

it was very hard for me to encourage my ds to go and work full time at a hard manual job - whenhis friend was smoking weed all day in a council flat he had got and claiming benefits.

not until i pointed out that

a) he had no choice - my way or the highway
b) that xxxx will be exactly where he is now - in 5, 10, 15 years.

it was hard work.

if you even mildly didn't give a shit - it would have been so easy to give in

Rebelmum - I agree re Rainham!

Am interested to know how exactly celeb culture is meant to have influenced people's values? Am I missing something here?

The worship of people with very little substance and moral fibre who do pretty much bugger all for a lot of cash.

I think the comment from the man quoted in the OP is being ironic!! Or at least that is how I would see it.

I grew up on a council estate, the houses were all nicely kept, there was only one family in our cul-de-sac who didn't work. It wasn't considered a rough area at all although there were a few families on the estate who may have been considered a bit rough. Fast forward 20 years and the situation is grim, all the families in our old street except one have moved out, the area is notorious for drug dealing, most families are unemployed even though the town has a very low unemployment rate. Most people on the street have been in prison at some point and yet when I was growing up I didn't even know anyone who had been to prison!

Moral views have definitely declined, I can remember being hauled over the coals because one of our neighbours had spotted me by the local shops and we were chewing gum! It just seems so odd to think that was unacceptable then when now the kids are all out of it on cannabis!

I did too and it's a different place now. There was a great sense of community spirit, street parties, jumble sales, we probably ran about more freely than most kids but we didn't get into that much trouble. Other parents would look out for eachothers children and resolve any fights or trouble caused.

Everyone worked too but in low paid jobs, or they were sick or old. The parents were definitely in charge, maybe that's the difference.

Dare I say it without being attacked everyone seemed to have 2 parents ...

everyone still has two parents, unless they're a virgin birth.

actually, i see what you're trying to say and you do deserve to be 'attacked' - or rather corrected my mum was a single parent and raised me with a strong work ethic and to care about people less priviledged that me. I'm a single parent now and am raising three children on my own. they are doing exceptionally well at school, are considerate, well mannered, delightful children who try hard at everything they do. I very much doubt that they will be feckless, unemployable adults because that just isn't how they have been brought up. to lable children from single parent families as failures or liabilities on those lucky enough to have two parents who live together is cruel. Single parents have to sometimes work twice as hard as families with two parents at home to try and ensure their children aren't left behind educationally - it's very difficult to work full time and then come home to three sets of homework, lunches, debriefs from the school day and getting ready for tomorrow.

the fact that my ex doesn't live with us is really neither here or there - there are plenty of nice miDdle class kids with married parents who have had every opportunity and who are dismal people.

oh fgs, what the hell has work/benefits got to do with "moral values". you can claim benefits and still have strong moral values.

I do think that today's children are infected to an extent by excessive materialism (though children have always been materialistic) and by vacuous celeb culture, but I also think they have much stronger moral values than the previous generation when it comes to racism, sexism and environmental issues among other things.

I think this survey just shows the british tendency to see decline in sharper focus than improvement.

Because the behaviour on large estates is worse.

There is a lack of personal responsibility where there are no consequencies for your actions.

Well I think that in the UK at present everyone is constantly encouraged to think of everyone else as the enemy, whether it's groups of young people just standing around chatting (you know, just socialising, not necessarily plotting to mug anyone) or anyone who talks to one's child must be a peedafil, and anyone who is on benefits must be a fraudster or a scrounger or an 'asylum seeker' (that new term that makes you feel less bad about slagging off refugees). We have a government that is devoting more and more time and effort to spying on people and ordering them about: if you treat everyone as though they are a potential threat/criminal/liar/menace people will stop trying to be nice to their neighbours or indeed anyone they pass in the street.
Yet big corporations are allowed to fiddle their taxes, underpay their staff and systematically remove employment rights, but that's OK because they are pals with the Government.

HOwever, nostalgia my arse: the present day western world is still a generally better place to live than it used to be for people who are not white or male.

rebelmum1, I agree with you on the issue of a sense of responsibility.

Ditto madamez re 'threats' - certainly a lot of the volatile teenagers seem to perceive just about anything as a threat (then out come the knives and look where it lands them...)

People in my area often own pitbulls as a form of protection - I find it bizarre as I simply can't what kind of a life you must be living to feel the need for such protection on a daily basis.