Yet another report about moral values in decline...

[MrsThierryHenry]

It's in today's Times: here

What surprised me was not so much the report about children not learning moral values from the parents, but some of the postings beneath the article. One poor chap says:

'I have taught my children what I learned in the 1980's, as teenager plus, that you look after number one and the rest can go to hell, and do not believe anyone who tells you different. This ethos is still applicable and relevant today.'

Surely this man has been badly hurt and needs counselling? I've encountered many people like him over the years and each one has turned out to be bitter and twisted, compared to people who have a less selfish attitude to life.

Are the people with pitbulls possibly minor-league drug dealers? Or something else dodgy?

People have always complained about the moral decline of society. The Romans complained their youths had no respect, for instance, and 18th century London was full of drunks - remember Gin Lane?

On the other hand I am tempted to say something has gone wrong. But that could just be a sign of age. Am inclined to agree with Madamez, though, and say we are all encouraged to be fearful of/hostile towards strangers now. The Daily Mail has a lot to answer for.

well, I returned to this country after 7 years abroad and found people noticeably friendlier than when I left. I won't pretend that applies to the whole country but it is my experience.

back to the benefits thing though - I don't see why the existenece of benefits leads to a lack of responsibility for the consequences of one's actions. For one thing, people who are legitimately claiming benefits face ever more draconian checks on their eliegibility, while people fiddling the system are caught all the time (and these people are criminals, let's not forget - don't use them to argue that the benefits system in the uk leads to moral decline). For another, like edam says, every culture has a tendency to moan about declines in values, including countries, like the US, which have very poor benefits systems.

as I say, I think some things are worse, but many things are better. you don't see the daily mail, or even the chbildren's society, writing about the improvements much though.

Edam - hmm...I'm clearly so innocent that I never even thought about the drugs thing! To be honest there are so many blardy pitbulls around that if they were all dealers I really don't think they could all keep their business going on such a small patch. I know about the Romans thing, though (and frequently quote it myself!) - but it just makes me think that these things go in cycles, driven by societal changes. If this is the case I think we happen to be in the sh*tty section of the social cycle at the mo - i.e. the same as the Romans during that famous quote! I have been expecting for a long time now that some dramatic event will cause us all to pull together, as with the 20th century wars.

Smallwhite - interesting, I must confess to shameful ignorance of the policing targets issue; on the face of it what you've said makes perfect sense - and as you suggest, these things always have a knock-on effect.

Senora - I'm so glad your experience was so positive. I get cheesed off with people not taking the initiative to help each other (such as this morning on the bus I had to push my way through a bunch of human lemons in order to help an old lady lift her heavy shopping trolley over the crowds...once I'd done that the waiting passengers could get on and the bus was able to move. Now why didn't one of the people next to her bother to help her? Muppets). I could write a book full of stories like that...in fact, maybe I'll start a thread about it on MN instead! here!

I'm in east London, which is much friendlier than where we lived before - Battersea (S London). We lived on a street with lovely, big houses and expensive cars - and self-interested neighbours. Now we live in a much poorer area but it's been SO easy to get to know people here - even before we had a child.

So the poverty link isn't as clear cut as it may seem when it comes to social connections, is it? Also - guess what? I'm on benefits! (Jobseekers' Allwce) - but I'm still a thoughtful and socially-responsible person!

We lived in a poor part of Battersea and it was very friendly - maybe working class people are? Lots of neighbours had lived there since the houses were built in the 70s - next door had come over on the Windrush!

Perhaps the middle classes in London are just less neighbourly. My neighbours used to stand in their front doors and gossip with each other (even pull out a kitchen chair in the summer).

MrsTH - you see, I don't live in London at all, and I think that helps.

actually now you come to mention it I used to get cheesed off in spain by Londoners who moved to small towns in spain and went on about how much friendlier the spanish were etc. It's not fair to call London the UK imo

"Research by the Children's Society suggests that two thirds of adults believe that the moral values of young people have declined considerably since the time when they were young."

This is true even if you go back 200 or 500 years. I remember my grandparents generation going on about "children these days". All the children and teens I know and meet on a daily basis are amasing with really strong morals"