Being too child-centric

[Judy1234]

Making a career out of the children, always putting them first, never saying no to them.... very different from where I am and how I am but certainly is how some parents operate.

Being laisser faire, letting them learn how to be board, letting them understand they don't always come first is good.

On another mumsnet thread I said we shouldn't always give children what they want and a few people were surprised I said it but I think it's true. Just because they want something doesn't mean they should get it.

women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4212440.ece

totally agree about going to the playground though. Absolutely hate it - managed 8 minutes today. Is my lack of interest condemning my child to a lifetime of obesity? [shrug emoticon]

i long for the time when dd gets old enough for me to drink coffee and read the paper on a bench while she plays...

I don't mind the playground, its the bit where DS is desperate to go outside after his tea plays on his scooter in the cul de sac and all the neighbours kids come and chat to me.

I do not know what to say to a 13 year old boy, I do not play football, I do not want to help with magic tricks, I want to be inside drinking a cup of tea, because I am knackered from being at work and then sorting things out at home.

Oh and also I hate the bloody soft plays where they expect you to go in with your child. I am a 38 year old woman and the slight novelty of sliding down a shoot that is too tight for my well upholstered adult rump into a sea of balls that smell slightly of wee, has worn off many many months ago.

rookie lol! i nominate you for quote of the week!

I notice little difference between my friends who are working parents and those who don't. In fact, my experience is that the fathers of children have become the 'baby-bores'.

I find it odd that she describes her five year old as sophisticated. Chummy-mummy perhaps?

Gosh - if I didn't live with my husband and only had my five year old daughter at home, I'm sure it would be far less child-centric than it currently is with an additional two year old 'in my face' and a husband who also enjoys the family and child-centric stuff.

When it's just me and my five year old, we are more inclined to go shopping or to the theatre or out for coffee/hot chocolate.

I hate the park too though. It feels like a pointless way for me to spend time. Men or non-parents clearly design the majority of play parks.

I have recently moved to a new area which has an amazing park which includes quite a few features that make a parents' life easier.

A large area but with only one gate entrance/exit. There are lots of benches near the gate. The playground is that spongey/rubbery surface - not the bark chips which make clothing filthy. The play equipment includes loads of low level pieces which are designed for and safe for toddlers. There's no need to life a child up to the slide or hover behind them as they threaten to fall off the platform that leads to the fireman's pole.

The equipment for older children has NO access for toddlers. You have to be big to be able to get to the first rung of the steps or else access up i s via a climbing wall. The swings are right out of the way. If you're lucky your toddler won't spot them. There are also posts marking off the area so it is difficult for a toddler to run in front of a fast swinging swing.

The parent can actually sit on a bench and read a paper/book and ignore even the youngest toddler and know that they are fine.

If Carlsberg did parks......

a parent's

I am a SAHM who gave up a very good job/salary to look after my kids. And yes I agree that people who I have met become very child centric. Am interested in this because I am quite young in comparison to the others, I am 30 they are all nearer 40. Do you think it's more an age thing? I.e. people who are older have had more managerial roles and feel they have to simply recreate that?

Might be an age thing. I had our first at 22 although I worked full time and at that age I think they just slot into your life and having 5 over 23 years as a mother so far means that you live your life and the children fit in rather than live child free 15 - 20 years, then devote yourself body and soul to spoilt little emperors around who you hover doing your helicopter parenting and then resume it when they are teenagers.

I certainly agreed with this post above:

"I do think there is an impulse for women who are used to a life outside the home to professionalise their childcaring and sometimes I feel it is taken to extremes and it results in the child becoming like a client who must be at the centre of everything. I think for some mothers the pressure to have the best birth, be the best breastfeeder, do the most caring sort of parenting, attend the right activities, provide the most stimulating environment, be the most supportive at school etc etc can result in the child being at the centre of a whole world of activity which is unnecessary and actually to do with the parent's issues rather than the child's."

I am not sure it is just stay at home mothers who used to lead companies or whatever with that mentality. It could as easily be some working mothers who work all day and get home and still stay up to 2am making the costume for the school play.

I think more women should consider their own needs too. I know I worked out my own limitation (perhaps over a few years however) whereas my sister tries to do it all and is always frustrated. I do less - i still have help with the twins on Sunday mornings for example which is not essential but it used to be realy helpful when we had 3 older ones to drive all over and 10 years ago we employed someone who did all the driving to their parties at weekends when we had 3 chdilren aged 4 - y years often at parties all over the place. I got sick of that driving role for so many of them so decided I'd rather put my feet up with the paper on Saturday afternoons or even just tidy the house and get someone else to do that.

I had my daughter when I was 23 and I now have 3 children, I'm 29. I'm a sahm and I don't think children should just slot in your life. Why have kids at all if that's all you give them? A slot in your ready made life? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Haven't read article, but got to Cod's post re one poxy kid and a full time nanny and thought of the woman who wrote something I used to laugh about with my mum - this woman was lamenting how hard it was to get out of the house with a baby, all the things you needed to remember, etc and finished it up by saying, "If it wasn't for the nanny, I don't think we'd ever have got out of the house at all!".

So now I often say, "If it wasn't for the nanny..." when I'm juggling two children, working full time, committee work, cleaning the house and tending to DH's every whim (natch).

I agree with the people who said the article was poorly written. I found it very disjointed and a lot of it was hard to make sense of. Even that sentence:

I don?t so much see a deterioration, with brilliant women who give it all up, as an increase in obsessions and concerns about things that I don?t think are worthy of them"

A deterioration in what???

As far as the "childcentric" thing goes, I am puzzled. If you want to have a family, then you have one, why would you NOT want said family to be a big part of your life?? As a professional person with good qualifications and a "good career" I have to say I find raising my kids (and I am not a natural mummy person!) has been the most rewarding and fulfilling (and frustrating and infuriating!) thing I have ever done! I still work, but I do have changed priorities- why is that wrong? On the other hand it doesn't mean I let my kids do what they want or get what they want, and I refuse to entertain them 24/7 (dd1 would love me to, but tough!)

When we go to the playground, I go with other mums I befriended in the early days and who stuck, which means the kids can play together (and fight!) and we can natter and catch up. And we certainly don't just talk about child-related things! OK, I've met a couple of mums over the years (and that's a small percentage) who have bought into the whole slave-like devotion to their kids, but I've met many more like myself. I've also met some women (and men) who could send an entire dinner party off to sleep before the entree talking about work! At least if you are talking about children to someone who has children they MIGHT be interested! If you are talking to me about computer graphics, spread sheets, company politics, however, watch my eyes glaze over as I mentally wonder how I can escape over to the nice lady with the wine bottle.

I did just get the impression that this was just a condescending article aimed as a put-down to those women ( but only the intelligent ones!) who stay at home with their kids, and enjoy their kids. I can feel myself deteriorating as we speak...

She looks miserable - the child looks smug, I think that says it all.

Anyone who spends an unhealthy amount of regular time obsessing about nappy bags, saying things like "There are times where the main crisis of my week is how I can buy a pint of milk", and thinking they're unusual because they have an 'intense' 5yo (does anyone NOT have an intense 5yo?) who lives with her mum but still spends time with her dad was obviously hideously boring to begin with and shouldn't bother blaming motherhood for the fact.

I really don't feel I am being "taken care of' by my man. We have always taken care of each other. But then we are not so obsessed with money- ie whoever is earing the most does not automatically rule here. I think maybe that makes ours a more liberated household.

Many of my friends who work talk about work non stop and I can't help wondering when some of them are going to get a life outside of it.

LOL at Hunkermunker. That's going to be my new phrase "If it wasn't for the (non existant) nanny..."

Another thing about her article. Perhaps in the 70s parents were less child centric because they had less time to be. Supermarkets didn't really exist so there was a lot more shopping to be done, no such thing as ready meals, although I'm aware for most proper mums they don't really exist anyway - whoops, bit of boring non essential child related info there. Plus men weren't expected to help, I recall my dad heading merrily out for an entire days golf, whilst mum (working 30hrs per week earning more than him) was on her knees polishing the floors). Me I was out whizzing round the crescent on my bike. Also there was something embarassing about getting help in, actually now that I think about it, there still is a bit of a stigma, but anyway I digress.

Given the choice between spending my Saturday doing the families laundry, cooking 2 meals from scratch including buying the groceries and giving the house a clean or going to the zoo with my family, well thanks all the same but I will go for the zoo option, child centric though it may be.

Oh and thanks Shitemum, I am hoping for my own syndicated column where I spend 2 hours a week rehashing mumsnet ideas and whine about how hard it is to fit my children around my work.

My mother was the only woman she knew on the street who didn't have a nanny (and those other mothers didn't work either) in the 1960s and we didn't get sent to boarding school and the others did so I suppose it just depended and still does depend who you mix with.

I certainly hugely much prefer talking to men about business than women about nappies, any day of the week. People work is fascinating. Most of their children discussions is not (to me at least).

Does it really have to be an either or / black or white perspective imposed on everyone?

Why is it men + business and women + nappies? My DP works in the City but he waxes lyrical about reusable nappies (and all the issues that go with them) for example, and his latest big deal. I can chat about all sorts.

Do you really think SAHMS talk about nappies for hours and hours? Come on. Belt up.

Hear hear winkywinkola. Real life isn't all men & business or women and nappies. It can be a great blend of everything and it should be. Life is rich and diverse, so why shouldn't our opinions and our realities reflect that? How dismissive of professional women and sahms is that particular comment?

And didn't you hear? All work and no play makes jack a dull boy and jilly a very dull girl. Just as does any one person who gets obsessed with any one thing.

Most peoples lives are a blend of different experiences and realities. The only thing that dictates the degree to which you are childcentric is you and (possibly) your dp.

I was totally childcentric when dd was a baby, but am less so now. She is more independent than a lot of kids I see in her class, so clearly, I haven't spoilt her with this. And she's a confident, bright wee thing who is intrinsically happy. Now that's all I'm interested in.

I don't really have much time for women (or men for that matter) who sneer at others because of their career choices or life choices generally. I tend to find such people small minded and bigoted to the extreme.

I suppose I am child centred but my kids are social, happy and balanced, (and yes I do say No quite a lot!)

I am a stay at home mum of four aged 10,9,3 and 1 and I am on the schools parent council and involved with my 3 year olds nursery.

I also run a support group for Autism and get involved with lots of family issues in different ways both locally and on the internet.

Whats wrong with this was of life!, I feel really bad when I read articles like this as they really put down stay at home mums and group them together.

Yes I bake and love the park but I read a newspaper everyday and go to a local womens group to socialise with lots of different types of people with not to much children chat.

My children have lots of hobbies between the four of them them including; Baby groups, dancing, horseriding, sundayschool, cubs/scouts, kung fu,swimming, golf and sailing.
(When they are at home they have plenty to do so I hardly ever get "I'm board" and they do a lot of things that they think of themselves)

Everyone is different and I have many friends who lead very different lives and that makes life much more fun!

I suppose I am child centred but my kids are social, happy and balanced, (and yes I do say No quite a lot!)

I am a stay at home mum of four aged 10,9,3 and 1 and I am on the schools parent council and involved with my 3 year olds nursery.

I also run a support group for Autism and get involved with lots of family issues in different ways both locally and on the internet.

Whats wrong with this was of life!, I feel really bad when I read articles like this as they really put down stay at home mums and group them together.

Yes I bake and love the park but I read a newspaper everyday and go to a local womens group to socialise with lots of different types of people with not to much children chat.

My children have lots of hobbies between the four of them them including; Baby groups, dancing, horseriding, sundayschool, cubs/scouts, kung fu,swimming, golf and sailing.
(When they are at home they have plenty to do so I hardly ever get "I'm board" and they do a lot of things that they think of themselves)

Everyone is different and I have many friends who lead very different lives and that makes life much more fun!

There is some weird superiority complex going on!

Listen, whether you work or stay at home, none of you are better people than me or anyone else just because of that.

And if you think you are a superior being because of your life choice, then you are bonkers and I would worry for either your children or your boss.

This last post has thrown me a bit...who's it aimed at? Have I missed something?

Squilly, in the SAHM/wohm debate, there are those who think that their life choices make them better than other people. The usual suspects.. . . . .

Ah..say no more. I'm with you on that one. And it's always the usual suspects, like you say.

These people will always feel superior about something. Before kids, it'll have been the people who lived in smaller houses they sneered at. Or the ones who decided to take a sabbatical instead of working themselves to death.

We're just their latest batch of whipping boys/girls.

I don't judge anyone by their career, house or lifestyle and I don't expect to be judged. And yet, in RL, as in Mumsnet, there are people who think they're better than me because they work. Personally, I think that's their problem. I don't judge them for working. If they feel the need to judge me for NOT working, that makes me beter than them

I hope no is judging me because I certainly do not do that, thought I know that it will always happen but life is to short to care about it.

Personally I think everyone is so different thet there are no right or wrong answers

I know people who would crack under the pressure of working and those who would crack if they did not work!