do you think fathers for justice help their cause?

[2shoes]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7442435.here

I just googled the Leo Blair kidnap story - it seems the Sun came up with it as one of their world exclusives

Like the IVF story, I am prepared to believe there was some small grain of truth to the story but expect that it was grossly sensationalised and exagerated by the Sun.

I am shattered and not up to doing any research! Maybe I will later. But to me it doesnt really matter. There is enough "proof" to incriminate them in many different ways.

they are a bunch of men who act like spoilt abusive children to get attention who care more for attention than the welfare of their children.

I am all for great Dads but these people do not impress me.

Bunch of wankers who are more interested in self publicity than fighting for their cause like decent grown ups.

I think most of the geneal public look at the guy dressed as superman on a crane and mutter 'Nutter' - that says it all really - now if it were women fighting - sensible women who really want to be part of their childrens lives they would march and lobby and start sensible debates - this lot - PAH!

They're bullying misogynists.

It strikes me that it is the fathers that put their needs and wants first - what about childrens4parentalaccess.

It would be good to see adults campagaining for children to get access to non resident parents in easy surrondings and without bickering.

They come across as either very foolish (to be charitable) or rather bullying.

A (male) mate of mine had a very rough time getting proper access to his kids and was tempted to try this sort of thing, His (female) solicitor told him that it was the worst posible thing that he could to, and that he should go through the normal routes.

He did and while it took time, he now has good access

My dp and I discussed this and we both think that these people are not really that interested in their dc's.If they were they'd be doing everything to make their dc's lives easier not parading around so these dc's have to hide their faces when another child at school says 'isn't that your dad?'Also they would spend more time in court fighting for their access than in court for stupid acts such as these.
As for hard to gain access my friends eldest are the dc's of a violent relationship and he was almost allowed access(he pulled out when he realised that he'd be monitored)and her next dc is the child of her ex husband who was mentally and emotionally abusive.Even after being shall we say removed from tyhe RAF for mental health issues the courts allowed him unsupervised access on the grounds that he was her father after all.
On the other hand a friend of ours who is one of the most lovely men ever and is great with kids(my 2 have adopted him as their uncle)ionly sees his dd when her mother shops where he works.She left him for spending to much time with his mum who he was looking after while she fought cancer.He refuses to take her to court unless neccessary as he does not want the child to have stress in her life.He pays child support and buys pressies and hopes that one day things will be better but again would not resort to the stupid and juvenile actions of f4j

Nametaken likens these men's actions to those of the suffragettes which I find totally odd.

Don't see how you can compare fighting for a basic human right of being able to vote in a democracy, with making a few changes to the legal system to that it's weighted better...?

There are channels to go through that allow parents access to their children.

Terrorising various people around the country, other than providing a few seconds laugh at a gimp in a loosely fitting superhero outfit, is an ineffectual use of these peoples time.
Why not take a law degree and make some changes from the inside?

no because they come across as utter knobs.

and statistically fathers are more likely to hurt their children (and partners) than mothers. OK it's still a v low percentage but many families need to be protected from abusive men. Automatic rights simply would not work.

If they could dress up as Superman and simultaneously blather on about fathers not paying maintenance along with fathers not having decent contact with their children then GREAT!

Unfortunately there's is a minority cause and not even half the fathers support them because they are too busy living the life of the free single male to care.

And I say the above feeling real and genuine pity for the minority of fathers who struggle to have contact with children they love.

I'm not sure I hugely disapprove with their methods of gaining support and publicity, I mean, voting doesn't get you very far in terms of change re. the legal system, so maybe making a noise does???

No they're pillocks.

V. much doubt they're all lovely dads, most dads who don't get contact are arseholes.

The thing about kidnapping leo Blair was not something that the 'Sun' made up - it was a plot by members of Fathers4Justice - they actually disbanded becasue of it and have since reformed into two (not very distinct) factions.

Isn't this more about those dads who are entitled to access, but their ex wives/partners make it difficult or impossible for them to see the children?
I think the majority of people know of situations where a woman has used the kids to get at their ex - personally I can think of 3 examples immediately. And in those cases the family courts seem to do little or nothing to force the mother to cooperate.

And personally, I've seen nothing (that I would trust) to say that all of the dads involved with F4J have been violent or abusive - the link further down just takes you to a blog - hardly quality journalism you can trust.

I'm quite shocked by how extreme some of the reactions in this thread are.

Hmmm, there do seem to be rather extreme reactions on this. I don't know many of the exact details of F4J but a couple of things seem clear to me.

• the guys involved vary from justifiably aggrieved and good fathers to those who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near their kids; whichever the case, the way they go about getting attention hardly makes them look like Father of the Year 2008

• the cause which they're trying to highlight is valid but they go about it in a way which is utterly idiotic; even if they don't believe that they get enough attention, plenty of other niche organisations find many more effective ways of consciousness raising and policy changing

Well said, cestlavie.

It's not always in the interests of the child to have their father around. As other posters have said, the majority of these jerks have had their access taken away for a very good reason.

But the costumes are just to make it more news worthy - sadly its what gets them noticed. The fact that nothing changes around the family courts shows there is a need to draw attention to its deficiencies and if this works (and it certainly get attention!), then I don't blame them. Officialdom is like a huge tank that just ignores the individual and rolls right on. Can you imagine somebody stopping you seeing your kids and then the only official mechanism available to you just ignored your plight. OMG I don't know what I'd do!

Bucharest - how do you know that?

I've yet to hear one of these superman clad yobs explain coherently why the courts have prevented access. When I hear that, and it's a totally spurious reason, then I'll be more prepared to listen to them.

Even leaving aside the validity of their motives or methods of protest, is there anyone else who thinks it is blooming out of line to invade someone's HOME. It is one thing to protest on public buildings, but they have driven children out of their home with their behaviour. To me, that's not part of Harriet Harman's public role as MP, it is bullying her family.

I heard a member of FFJ on the radio last night, and he had not given one second's thought to the impact he was having on other members of the Harman family. I had some sympathy with the caller to the phone in who suggesting they shoudl be soaked with a fire hose to encourage them to get cold and fed up and come down!

I have to admit that I've not heard an interview with any of them. But I can't believe that they're all unfit dads and I also know how many angry vengeful women there are out there, who - whilst holding themselves up as shining examples of dedicated motherhood - happily use the kids appalling to hit back at a man who has left the relationship. And whilst the courts will pursue unpaid maintainance they don't ever seem to force a mother to adhere to access agreements - which to me seems dreadful and not at all in the interests of the kids.

And sadly, officaldom in this country doesn't tend to take any notice of the individual and so it takes quite persistant and extreme action to get anyone to take notice and even more of the same before anything actually changes.

RibenaBerry that is a very good point

ribena I agree with you as well. They do come across as bullies. They invade homes and plot to kidnap children? Those are elements used by terrorists as well.

Now before you jump down my throat I am not saying they are terrorists but they are also very poor decision makers with dodgy moral codes.

I probably wont explain this very well but there is a point I'd like to make.

If F4J want to improve the lot of men dont you think it would set a great example and also help their cause massively by helping to reform those men out there who are abusers and crap parents? I feel that there are some reforms only other men can make. They choose to put their energy into attention seeking stunts that are invasive and abusive instead of doing something more compassionate. They only have themselves to blame for the hatred they evoke.

And I am sorry but history is full of men not giving a crap about their families. YES women too but sorry its far more likely a man is going to walk out or abuse than a woman. That is just a fact.

I just feel that if they want to improve men's situation they could do it by looking in a mirror first.

I agree with Eeny. (Isn't that unexpected?)

The bigger problem here and in fact the very nub of the matter is the inability of men to accept the feminine. If men did indeed reflect and utilise their feminine aspect this world would be a better place.

I cannot however see the wavering wankers sitting on rooves like Del Boy and blinking Rodders in that luvverly old sitcom suddenly getting on the psychoanalytical vibe and spreading the word across the world.

It'd be nice to see though wouldn't it?