Three members of Lucy Letby hospital senior leadership team arrested.

[MissJoGrant]

Story here:

I think the CPS are going to be looking for a bit more than assumptions, particularly given the circus that has built up around her and her convictions over the past few months. It will definitely not be in their interests to set a low bar on this one. So if she is charged I think we can be fairly sure that they are happy there is sufficient evidence to suggest she committed the offences.

Plus I’m not sure why the police investigation has gone on for so long if they were only ever going to base their charging decisions on the fact that she is already a convicted serial killler?

I don't think that. I think that everyone should be allowed a fair trial, considering all evidence. Not this media circus created with the intention of creating bias. Why do you think the evidence of world leaders, much more qualified than those used in the trial should be ignored?

Edited to add I am not a Lucy Letby cheerleader. I am a cheerleader of thorough legal systems and a safe health care system.

So who do you think would supervise them, you think doctors know how to look after sick babies? That is not their role. Supervision happens with other neonatal nurses but by your statement you wouldn’t let them look after your baby, so who would supervise them?

Far too much doubt of Lucy Letby’s guilt. It’s shocking if she was the scapegoat. her life is ruined.
Always the same in the healthcare professing they blame the junior member of staff.
The poor families have been put through so much and now it has resurfaced yet again to put them through it all again. Awful

As mentioned upthread, I'm a fence sitter, and am open to the possibility these new arrests strengthen rather than cast doubt on LLs convictions.

Nonetheless, I'm amazed at how many of you believe you live in a society where we have institutions that can be trusted to accurately prevent, detect and act on any miscarriages of justice. Which is essentially what the she's convicted end of arguments come down to.

I've always thought Lucy Letby was scapegoated.

I expect the powers that be know there's a real risk of the truth emerging and are making sure they are being 'seen to act ' (a 'get in there first' kind of action) before they're held to account.

Thoughts with those tiny little innocent babies and their mum's and dads.

I don’t think she’s innocent. I’m not convinced she is guilty.

Does that make me a “LL cheerleader”?

This happened to me with a complaint I was told ‘we dont know what drs were in a and e that day’ I said ‘well how do you know what to pay them then if you dont know their hours?’ Luckily I had a signed copy of the prescription so was able to tell them the drs name. The NHS can be absolutely awful when it comes to accountability.

I think her conviction is unsafe.

And as for the idea that our institutions can't get it wrong, what about the Post Office horizon scandal?

Yes, I highly doubt any of the posters who've told us we need to rely on the convictions are as qualified as the Court of Appeal judges who refused Andrew Malkinson the right to appeal in 2006, for example.

And as pointed out before, the tests for allowing an appeal are narrow. The COA isn’t relitigating a trial, that's not how it works.

This isn’t about fans of Lucy this is about people who have worked in this field that have doubts about the evidence presented or the lack of evidence presented. It could have been any one of us.

So you are saying the police are more knowledgable in detailed medical information than a panel of leading neonatologists, or they don’t want to get found out for leading a witch hunt.

And that scandal shows that once you get deep into doubling down mode, deaths barely matter.

Yes, and I think this is what sometimes gets missed. The landscape this is all happening in.

We have multiple institutions involved, with vast resources, that have problems with coverups and accountability. I don't know whether LL is innocent or not. I do know, as does anyone sentient, about the clear and well publicised problems with the NHS, CCRC, police and court systems.

There are three people now facing possible gross negligence charges because they weren't convinced LL was guilty. All these people going on and on about the justice system getting it wrong, you'd be happy for managers to let a possible serial killer run rampant because there's apparently not enough evidence? At what point would you have removed her from the unit? Never? At what point will you believe she did in fact do it?

I haven't seen any indication as to why they have been charged with gross negligence manslaughter?

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lucy-letby-truthers/#

I don't think you're addressing me here, being a fence sitter, but I'd be interested to know how posters might acknowledge the institutional failure sized elephants in the room in our justice system without 'going on'? No doubt you wouldn't expect that people pretend they don't exist.

Why do you think they have then?

She had nearly a year long trial defended by one of the top barristers in the country. I'm not sure why so many seem to think every single system just so happened to have failed around LL? How else should she have been defended? People not liking the outcome and refusing to accept it doesn't mean there was an institutional failure.

Oh, have they been formally charged now? I only saw the arrests.

None of this answers my question.

You've talked about people 'going on' about the recent, highly significant and problematic failures in our justice system. These clearly and indisputably exist, and did so long before Letby's trial. How can we acknowledge them without 'going on'? Some clear guidance would be helpful.

I have no idea. I am keeping my mind open until more information is available like a normal rational person

Does anyone know anything about charges for the bosses? All the news stories I can see are about being arrested and held on suspicion but not confirming charges. Then the story about the investigations into LLs earlier placements seemed to take over.

I’ll believe that she did do it when the witnesses have not been found to have lied.
When the expert panel refuting the possibility she killed the babies have been heard.
When the research that was misrepresented has been explained.

Also, at the minimum, I don’t think she was mentally well enough to have been working. Which is the point I feel she should have been removed from the wards. That’s not to say I think all people with mental illness should be locked up for life.