Three members of Lucy Letby hospital senior leadership team arrested.

[MissJoGrant]

Story here:

Do we not owe it to the families to get to the bottom of this?

I thank my lucky stars every day, but if I was in their shoes I would want to be absolutely certain that everything that could be done had been done to make sure that there was no chance of recurrence - no matter what that looked like

We need to think about the bigger picture….it’s not “just” a case of she’s guilty/she’s not guilty

This is a chance to get things right. And simply saying “she’s guilty, we’ve solved it” IS NOT GOING TO CUT THE MUSTARD

We need to think about the bigger picture….it’s not “just” a case of she’s guilty/she’s not guilty

I agree. There were massive, massive failings at that hospital. In the Private Eye articles there was a quote from the triplets father who described the maternity unit generally, and the neonatal department specifically. He and his wife were shocked at the state of the place, it was so substandard. They lacked confidence that their babies would be okay.

There's more to read about experienced nurses being removed from the unit and replaced by less experienced nurses and bank nurses.

Some of the doctors didn't have the right kind of experience either.

The whole place wasn't fit for purpose. They should never have been taking such poorly premature babies.

One other thing that some people say is that when Letby was removed the deaths went down, and that proves her guilt. True they did reduce, but at the very same time the unit was downgraded so that they weren't taking such poorly babies anymore.

I agree. I can’t believe that the legal system allows for someone to be held on remand for this amount of time before being proven guilty of any crime. I know it’s because of pressure on the system etc etc but if you’d spent two years in prison as a suspected child killer I imagine it would have an impact on how you present.

@ANiceBigCupOfTea it’s safe. At the moment. There is a 58 page judgement on why she wasn’t given leave to appeal. It’s very very detailed. No one has the oversight and detail that the judges do in making judgements based on law and submissions from counsel. They have the knowledge and experience and aren’t fascinated amateurs. The CCRC is still looking at it but they can only make recommendations. What’s happened today will not affect the CCRC deliberations.

Completely agree. Consultants were only doing rounds twice a week, when it should have been twice or three times a day. It beggars belief.

From the Telegraph

The twists and turns of the Lucy Letby case have taken a new, troubling direction.
On Tuesday, Cheshire Constabulary announced that it had <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/01/letby-hospital-staff-arrested-manslaughter-investigation/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">arrested three members of the senior leadership team at the Countess of Chester hospital, where the babies that Letby was convicted of murdering were in her care.
The allegation is gross negligence manslaughter – the implication being that managers were criminally negligent in not preventing Letby from carrying out her deadly campaign on their wards.
The problem with this investigation is that there is now <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/04/cracks-lucy-letby-evidence-murder-neonatal-experts/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">serious doubt that any murders took place at all.
Scores of experts have voiced concerns, and the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) has <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/03/letby-babies-died-from-poor-care-natural-causes-not-murder/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">enlisted a huge team to examine the case. It is expected to report back before Christmas

For the police to not only refuse to acknowledge the serious doubts that have arisen since Letby’s conviction, but to also double down by arresting the management feels not only tactical, but a little vindictive.

After all, if the CCRC determines that the conviction is unsafe and Letby is eventually acquitted – a very real possibility – then the decision of management to question the suspicions of finger-pointing consultants will be entirely vindicated.
It is also hard to see how the management team could have acted differently when consultants came to them claiming that a killer nurse was on the prowl.
<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/01/lucy-letby-thirlwall-inquiry-chester-live/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Evidence to the Thirlwall Inquiry, which is looking into how the attacks could have been prevented, revealed that doctors provided no proof that Letby was guilty, simply having a ‘gut feeling’ because she was present when some of the babies collapsed.
Despite this flimsy reasoning, the management took Letby off the wards and carried out several internal and external reviews attempting to get to the bottom of the high death rate.
Even when hospital bosses did agree to contact police in May 2017, the Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Constabulary told them he did not think the threshold for a criminal investigation had been met.

It was not until Ravi Jayaram, a consultant, later claimed that he had caught Letby <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/13/doctor-who-helped-convict-letby-no-objective-evidence/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">failing to help a collapsing babythat police launched a full inquiry. That allegation had not been made to managers earlier, and is not backed up by previous emails sent by Dr Jayaram.
But the timing of the new arrests feels significant. It comes just a fortnight after Jeremy Hunt, a former health secretary, <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/18/jeremy-hunt-lucy-letbys-case-must-be-re-examined/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">called for an “urgent re-examination” of the Letby case, saying that “serious and credible” questions had been raised by experts

Last week, Wes Streeting, the Health Secretary, also announced a <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/30/nhs-will-use-ai-to-stop-next-letby-scandal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">rapid national investigation into NHS maternity and neonatal health services following a string of scandals.
Just as the narrative is tipping in Letby’s favour, Cheshire Constabulary has issued an investigation update, and it is not the first time the force has done so.
In March, lawyers representing former executives at the Countess of Chester asked for the Thirlwall Inquiry to be paused while criminal cases against the nurse were reviewed.

But on the eve of legal arguments about the submission, Cheshire Constabulary announced it was expanding the scope of its inquiry to include gross negligence manslaughter against ‘individuals at the hospital.’
Now those same individuals have been arrested and bailed. Arresting someone does not mean that charges will be brought, only that they can now be interviewed under caution.
But the managers could have been invited for a voluntary interview under caution, meaning this announcement by the police feels performative and unnecessary.
The arrests also play into the hands of those who will not even consider that Letby could be innocent, and will not go unnoticed by the CCRC. And it raises the prospect that if charges are brought, reporting restrictions will be re-imposed, making it harder to publicly query the Letby convictions

In Tuesday’s update, Cheshire Constabulary also pointed out that it was continuing to investigate Letby for more offences at the Countess of Chester and Liverpool Women’s Hospital, where she worked as a trainee.

It is unclear how new charges would affect the CCRC review, but they would undoubtedly cause a new, unwanted headache for her defence team.
Senior management find themselves in the line of fire whatever a new Letby verdict. If she remains guilty, they ignored the doctors and allowed a serial killer to roam the wards unchecked.
If she is innocent, they missed one of Britain’s worst maternity scandals and failed to tackle doctors attempting to lay the blame for their failings on an innocent nurse.
Earlier this month, Nottinghamshire Police launched a corporate manslaughter investigation into failings at Nottingham University Hospitals NHS trust that led to <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/o/Sky5t/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/02/nottingham-trust-corporate-manslaughter-probe-baby-deaths/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hundreds of babies dying or being injured.
The Letby investigation has cost millions, and if her convictions are overturned, serious questions will need to be asked about why Cheshire continued to pursue the case at taxpayers’ expense when there were clear issues.
Making a complete volte-face and charging managers with maternity failings may now be Cheshire Constabulary’s only way of saving face.

Just wait until the public find out about Physician Associates, and the way that Drs are denied training on the basis that the DH thinks it’s more beneficial for PAs to be trained than actual, you know, doctors

Oh! And that you can’t tell a PA from a Dr, because the PA position is that they are the same fucking thing

I swear to God, the amount of potential there is for shit to hit the fan, and Joe Public is kept in the dark 😡

@allofusare that’s quite something coming from the Telegraph

doctors provided no proof that Letby was guilty, simply having a ‘gut feeling’...
Despite this flimsy reasoning, the management took Letby off the wards and carried out several internal and external reviews attempting to get to the bottom of the high death rate.

Even when hospital bosses did agree to contact police in May 2017, the Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Constabulary told them he did not think the threshold for a criminal investigation had been met.

It was not until Ravi Jayaram, a consultant, later claimed that he had caught Letby failing to help a collapsing baby that police launched a full inquiry. That allegation had not been made to managers earlier, and is not backed up by previous emails sent by Dr Jayaram.

The article from April that is in the first post of this thread talks about a memo email that has come to light where Jayaram states Letby came to him with concerns about the baby in question. In court, he states that she didn't.

Whether she's guilty or not there are questions here about Jayaram.

Sarah Knapton is a terrible science writer, but this is a very good piece (perhaps because there isn't much science in it). I'm very much not a fan of the Telegraph in general (or of David Davies MP) but I do admire their campaigning on this.

Making a complete volte-face and charging managers with maternity failings may now be Cheshire Constabulary’s only way of saving face.

This almost sounds like conspiracy logic ("What do we do, Assistant Chief Constable?" — "Double down, make it look like anyone backing Letby is onto a loser"), but sadly this would not be the first time that a police force has done what it needed to in order to protect its own reputation, even if that means someone going to jail unnecessarily (by which I mean the managers; LL is almost a separate story).

Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) has enlisted a huge team to examine the case. It is expected to report back before Christmas

I didn't know this. I thought it would take years.

This almost sounds like conspiracy logic ("What do we do, Assistant Chief Constable?" — "Double down, make it look like anyone backing Letby is onto a loser"), but sadly this would not be the first time that a police force has done what it needed to in order to protect its own reputation, even if that means someone going to jail unnecessarily (by which I mean the managers; LL is almost a separate story).

It's like what you could call "old style" policing. The very worst of the worst aspects of policing from the 70s onwards where covering backs was the main motivation for anything.

You mean legally I have to say "alleged"? Not sure how necessary that is when she's already gotten a WLO after two separate trials-but ok "alleged" then! If there was no suspicion of more crimes the police wouldn't be spending what I assume is millions of pounds and 3+ years investigating it.

A May article from the Guardian. It mentions a few things about Jayaram and Evans.

The convictions of Lucy Letby: should they be overturned?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/14/the-convictions-of-lucy-letby-should-they-be-overturned?CMP=share-btn-url

Do we know if those arrested are male or female ?

How on earth is this relevant?

Surely all crimes are always alleged until a person is proven guilty? It doesn’t matter what they have already been convicted of. If Joe Bloggs is tried in court for a crime, the jury isn’t given information about any previous convictions as this will likely prejudice their decision in coming to a verdict. So while Lucy Letby’s guilty verdict may have lead to investigations about other possible crimes, it doesn’t mean she’s guilty. I thought that was a central tenet of the legal system.

Wow. So over a dozen new charges are with the CPS for further murders/attempted murders by Letby taken place at Liverpool Women's Hospital and the Countess of Chester, it's reported today.

Have you a link? @3678194b

I watched a programme about her after her trial and was convinced about her guilt. But whether or not she is actually guilty, when doctors raised concerns about her something should have been done. So those that didn't act are culpable of negligence. IMHO. A whole year went by before the police were involved.

Yes, they have spent a vast amount of public money trawling through all the deaths and collapses she has been present at for her entire career. If the standard of proof is as low as for her convictions it would be surprising if they DIDN’T manage to find a few.

I've seen the news about that today also, @3678194b

So the mass murderer/serial killer may be in line for more murders. Poor families.

Then again, I remember police saying for children A-R, that covered only one year of her career. Dirty serial killer, I hope she gets everything she deserves and more.

I wonder how Liverpool would work, since they told Thirlwall they didn't have the exact dates when LL had been in. Unless they've found them since maybe, but one would think it would be submitted if so?

If a Hospital cannot account for which days staff members were on duty, it should be shut down. That is absolutely beyond the pale.

It's just the most ridiculous witch hunt. The police will now upset the parents of more children who died of natural causes. No idea how anyone would want to take up being a neonatal nurse in this country after this.