NHS England to be abolished

[Chelsea2026]

Shocking news that NHS England is to be abolished by 2027 and all functions moved into DHSC!

Really interesting thread.

@Justsayit123 said: "Let’s see what happens. Why does NHSE need a comms team when the dept of health has one and the government has one too. There’s lots of duplication."

Absolutely. Duplication. Perhaps some of the NHS posters from the different sections can explain why it's a good idea that I have two possible ways of logging in to my local GP surgery. I have no idea.

Yeah guess that’s the end of doctor training now

🙄

@Chelsea2026 I work for NHSE and we have been told (those that will still have a job) will move from AfC to the civil service grades. I presume FDP will stay due to the huge contract with Palantir. Sending best wishes to everyone on this thread who is affected by this, the rhetoric from Streeting and Starmer has been awful. Think Streeting will be attending the staff meeting due on Monday which will be interesting.

I worked for NHSe for a year, they paid me a lot of money to do not much. It was a years project and I always felt a bit uneasy about it. Was pleased to leave, miss the money though!

The ICBs won't be going anywhere I wouldn't have thought - local commissioning is still going to be needed - there is no way DHSC will be able to commission local services effectively from the centre.

I do hope they bring some of the things that were hived off back though - the PCTs actually worked reasonably well until the government split them up and created the CCGs (which was nothing more than an ideological move and 'jobs for the boys').

When commissioning local services data, to understand local needs and trends etc is absolutely vital- then when the government decided to create the CCG they hived off all of the data and intelligence functions into individual Commissioning Support Units (CSU). CCGs then had to pay the CSU to provide the data (which they had previously got for free as the analysts worked within the PCT). This cost a lot more than employing analysts directly.

In 2022 CSUs were disbanded and the provision of data and insight moved to NHS Digital which was then absorbed into NHS England. The CCGs, now ICBs get standard datasets for free now, but if they need anything bespoke they have to commission it either from NHS England or private companies.

Since the PCTs were abolished, the CCGs went through numerous restructures to 'save money' and respond to the latest bright idea from the government who were sinking under the weight of the consequences of cutting so much public funding of health and prevention services. Which is ironic because the resources involved in restructuring are immense and the loss of expertise which just migrated to the private sector and sold back to the CCGs is costly.

Then you get the big restructure of CCGs into ICBs where they basically removed the teeth of the commissioners and put the power firmly in the hands of the providers - which is a major step towards privatisation.

I never agreed with the people bemoaning the privatisation of the NHS because I don't see a problem with local commissioners purchasing private provision if it presents value for money and meets needs - as long as the commissioners are public, hold the purse strings and create policy, the service is still very much a public service...but when the ICBs were created, that was a whole different board game!

Slimming down the bureaucracy is absolutely the right thing to do and hopefully they will give the local commissioners some of the power back.

I do wish however that they had done it the other way round and slimmed down the DHSC and strengthened the independence of NHSE - that way DHSC could focus on developing national policy only and leave the practical stuff to NHS England and it would also shield the NHS from constantly having to keep up with the whims of the latest Secretary for Health!

As a front line NHS worker I doubt I will notice any difference.

Every person I know who has gone to work for NHS England has been a very career driven individual, nothing wrong with that of course, but they have never had much interest in front line care and spent very little time of their careers in front line care. Im sure there are some useful elements of it but I'm also sure any vital functions will continue.

@MILsAreHumanTooaddressing shit managers with a lack of training is a different issue. We need to get better about managing underperforming staff out.

but no, compare the NHS to similar systems and it is under managed and this has been replicated several times by different studies

I understand what you are saying, but surely part of the 'too many managers' problem are exactly those who are not fit for purpose; who achieve not a lot but waste so much - not only the cost of themselves, but the cost of the wasted time they inflict on wider teams. Not to mention the loss to patients of closed clinics, etc whilst they do their tick boxing and wasteful 'meetings'. If they are in place, but achieving nothing, yet the team pull together and still perform, it proves the expensive manager was never needed - trained, or not.

I see a level of management who are never really called to account, cost a lot and actually create cost too, but are merely managed out to move from post to post, only to be replaced by other ineffectual managers who are playing the same checkers game as they shuffle around the 'board'.

However this is just part of the problem. The whole system is broken. It is no longer fit for purpose and needs radical overhaul from top to bottom.

@ohfourfoxache
Same also in ICB, Have made huge implementations within my department, all service user centred and to promote equalities within care. To be basically told that we are meaningless really hurts.

@Hoppinggreen Thanks for that! Yes totally shit

Well let’s see, 35 years working in the NHS in a patient facing role at a relatively high level, yep, pretty sure I know what they did, don’t make assumptions based on the fact that personally I and many of my colleagues feel the money spent on this quango could be better used elsewhere

I’m amazed Labour are doing this. They are basically putting NHS into govt hands. Is that what they want when the Tories are back in power? I hope they also publish how many of these jobs are created in the new arrangement. More civil servants, yay

Please spare a thought for those us who face the realistic prospect of losing our jobs and then to be told in the media that we are rubbish and pen pushers and a waste of money. We found out that our organisation was being abolished via the media and still have no idea what that means for us. Some people were close to breaking point after the last restructure and I am deeply concerned that this could tip them over the edge. Please remember that we are humans who have families to provide for and are just trying to do our best to improve the health and lives of our friends, family, communities and populations we serve.

About time. The waste in the NHS is shocking. Hopefully, this will help to prevent it.

I agree with this. There can be a respectful conversation about the merits (or otherwise) of NHS England being abolished but it's a frightening and frustrating time for those of us whose jobs are at risk. I've read so much incorrect information on here over the last 5 days or so about NHS England's role and the staff involved.

Out of interest, how do you think it will help prevent waste in the nhs?

So I am pretty sure I posted earlier on this thread that I had respect for Wes Streeting as a health secretary, before this seemingly snap decision to reorganise the NHS in England.

Well, seeing the disparaging ignorant comments about mental health he is making today, I’m completely disgusted with him.
It is not trivial to be diagnosed with MH conditions. And it’s not trivial for people to be able to claim health related benefits- this involves liaison with their doctors and medical assessments and all sorts of hurdles. This kind of social punching down from a government minister is appalling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7ejvr3y0zo

I am a very loyal Labour voter and absolutely horrified to see the direction that the party is apparently taking. They need to get out and about and see what a terrible state the health of the public is actually in, after 13 years of Tory rule.

We have an ageing population. The economy is stil struggling after 2008 crash, Brexit, Covid. Foodbanks are totally oversubscribed. Cost of living is through the roof in the UK and never came down again. Housing is unaffordable or close to unaffordable for an increasingly large section of our population.

Of course more and more people are getting desperately ground down by years of living like this, and we are seeing a huge increase in MH problems. Doesn’t mean anything is being ‘over diagnosed’. MH problems left unsupported can have devastating consequences for individuals and families and whole communities. This is so dangerous to talk like Streeting is doing.