Grenfell Tower - what am I missing??

[TyrannasaurusJex]

Just listening to the news and various survivors and victims groups from Grenfell Tower giving very strong opinions on the plans to disassemble the building.
I'm not quite following why some want it to stay up? Do they mean as a sort of memorial? Can anyone explain?

I do understand that thinking. I think the issue is that the building is really starting to degrade, it's completely contaminated and it's on such a small footprint in a massively crowded residential area that includes two schools. I think they're estimating two years to take it down as they have to do it piece by piece and do remediation as they go. The longer it stands, the more dangerous it gets.

Thanks for your concern but I’m not a sociopath as far as I know. I’ll check with my psychiatrist at my next appointment though.

Would suggest ignoring @SnickersAndRipples until they are banned once mods are back. Previous form for posting same kind of response / laughing and emojis on stillborn threads. Just don't fuel it as that is what they are thriving on.

Stillborn threads? That’s blatantly untrue

I understand the feelings of the families.
My sister was killed in a building that had been inadequately designed and engineered. We are in a country which is high risk earthquakes and buildings built to a high standard. The building collapsed and was subsequently demolished . Many peoples remains where not found so the building was a grave. There is now a beautiful garden on the site.
There needs to be something beautiful on the Greenfell site.

"No mention is ever made of the fact that a lot of the flats were illegally subletted and letted to illegal immigrants"

The right wing frothers are always banging on about that, I'm tired of this much rehashed trope - like it somehow exculpates those who built, contributed to and failed to prevent this avoidable tragedy

"Without justice, this is just erasure"

This encapsulates it nicely

I think you need to repeat the report by Sir Martin Moore-Bick in the Grenfell Enquiry and you would not be saying that

I didn't realise that some remains were unable to be retrieved. That's terrible. Why is that, the instability of the building?

@MercurialButton
Maxilla is more a route under the Westway than a garden. I don’t think a memorial garden at Grenfell is comparable.

If you actually knew Maxilla Gardens you would have noticed the newish community building which is in continuous use. The whole space has been replanted with a new seating area. I see the space being used
for exercise classes as well.

I walk my dog there every day and the only staffy I see has a lady owner and is scared of other dogs.

No. Everything was removed, including the remains of pets. People were even given back possessions as far as possible. I assume people mean trace remains.

@Sewverit ah, I see. Thank you for the explanation.

@TyrannasaurusJex

In my opinion as a local it’s because survivors and Bereaved are still understandably upset and angry that no one has been brought to justice.

They were also under the impression that they would have the final say on the site and when the building came down and the memorial. Someone had the idea of taking the building down to a few storeys and planting it up (which is clearly impracticable and impossible to maintain), which a lot of people liked. So I think it was a shock when the government just said it’s coming down. Of course there are disagreements among those most affected.

They think if the building comes down everyone will forget about it. Which to a large extent, unless you are local, everyone has.

I am old enough to remember the Tower being built!

North Kensington has a lot of social housing and unfortunately those that live in it are lowest priority of RBKC council and have been treated like the scum of the earth for decades.

@Needmorelego @CanOfMangoTango www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/12/grenfell-tower-investigator-vows-to-provide-answers-for-victims-families All flats was completely emptied, all contents sifted and human remains taken out. There are, devastatingly for the bereaved, some remains removed which cannot be identified. Not sure whether the site is a grave or a memorial?

If flats were let or sublet - that didn't cause or exacerbate the fire. That didn't cause the massive loss of life. Why is that even relevant? They were all people living there.

@Thankyouforthrdayz I didn't realise that all the bodies had been removed.
I apologise for being wrong about that.

Agreed. But surely a structurally safe memorial would be better then?

💯 @surreywilds

The comparator for this is the 9/11 Memorial, where the US have built a beautiful calm and contemplative memorial to the almost 3000 people who died from the terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers.

it is on the very site where those people perished, and is a permanent reminder of what happened. The money from guided tours of the area is used to fund the upkeep of the memorial and the museum.

The 9/11 Memorial includes pools that represent "absence made visible". Water flows into the voids, but they can never be filled. The sound of the cascading water creates a tranquil and contemplative space

I can't imagine how I would feel if my loved one had died in Grenfell and the thought that their body wasn't recovered but I believe I'd feel a great deal of comfort knowing there's a beautiful park or a place to sit and be, in their memory. Better than the burnt out shell there now. There are photos and public records so the greed of those who failed to act in the best interests of the families left behind is never forgotten or 'kicked into the long grass'.

A memorial is not the same than leaving a potentially dangerous building standing. Also, the tragedy is horrendous but sadly one that has been politicised and used to vilified nearby neighbourhoods that were very active in raising money and to help with donations in the aftermath. I have sympathy for the genuine victims and families but for the rest and how is being treated not at all.

The fire was hotter than a crematorium in some parts of the building.
May they rest in peace.

I think there are 2 separate issues - whilst against the wishes of some survivors or bereaved families, the building should be dismantled due to the further risk of collapse and damage to surrounding buildings. However the victims families should be consulted about a suitable and fitting memorial.

But also it is disgraceful that a) the tragedy happened at all knowing that many years of complaints flagging unsafe issues within the building, b) in the intervening years no one at all has shouldered any responsibility or been held accountable. There are many many people who would have known, and signed off or approved the cladding, and other dangerous aspects within the building and it's outrageous that they have not been charged.

Whether the flats were illegally sublet I think is pretty irrelevant to the 2 issues, and stinks of victim blaming imo.

It truly astounds me that there are people out there who think that unless you had the "right" to be in those flats your life has less worth placed on it.
It doesn't matter if every single flat in the tower was being sublet ten times over, the people in it were not robots or aliens. They were human beings, the same as the rest of us and the terror that 72 of them must have felt at knowing their certain fate is truly horrifying to imagine.

How anyone can be aware of 72 people burning to death, shrug, bang on about subletting and then manage to take any pride in themselves I will never know.

@dottiehens Also, the tragedy is horrendous but sadly one that has been politicised and used to vilified nearby neighbourhoods that were very active in raising money and to help with donations in the aftermath.

Genuine question, how so?