Grenfell Tower - what am I missing??

[TyrannasaurusJex]

Just listening to the news and various survivors and victims groups from Grenfell Tower giving very strong opinions on the plans to disassemble the building.
I'm not quite following why some want it to stay up? Do they mean as a sort of memorial? Can anyone explain?

It’s not naive. I worked in the industry at the time and everyone was shocked.

Yes there was a problem with the claddings fire rating but architects and engineers didnt know this. They were given the incorrect information by the company.

That aside that wasnt what made this so disastrous. It was the stack effect which is basically fire/smoke/heat moving through air gap like a chimney which made this fire move so fast.

That cladding - air gap - insulation design is all over the country. Literally. I left architecture shortly after grenfell so I am not sure now what people use now. But that style of system design was practically industry standard. It was and still is everywhere!

I dont think people realise that.

personally don’t understand the “need” for an unsafe structure to stand as a “memorial”

There are many memorials around the area.

It’s a loud small group who are aggrieved, IMO, they need the building as a symbol to use in media to prove their pain/loss. On repeat.

But why is this different from say a train wreck, or plane crash. The remains are removed, the wreckage removed - it’s normal. Home burn, get rebuilt. City of London, burned rebuilt.

They don’t want the area rebuilt - homes are rebuilt after fires all the time, even if there was negligence.

It’s a big area, where there is need for housing - but it won’t be built on. There are many people who would live there - like the thousands arriving by boat - do you think they care that there was a tragedy when they get brand new flat???

It’s a terrible location for garden or park.

Keeping a hazard for memorial is INSANE.

I understand the emotion of the families. The tower needs to come down though, it will become unsafe at some point. The families need to be supported well during that process, and a proper memorial space should be built.

@MercurialButton it's not a terrible area for a park or garden. It's actually probably a perfect area. It's in a corner surrounded by a sports centre (which has a nice cafe that literally faces it), a school and other housing. I assume the play park at the back of the building is actually still there - but obviously not useable at the moment.
It could make a really nice garden area with a memorial, play area, picnic seats etc.

I recall some of the issue was that council tenants were subletting their council flat, making money renting it to others whilst the real council tenant lived elsewhere. Some The people who lived elsewhere were then claiming to be displaced / suffered harm (wanting ££) - when it was actually their not-legal tenants who were displaced /harmed. It was a scandal how many people lived in building who were not expected to be there and that the expected council tenants lived elsewhere. Scammers & thieves.

It’s the scammers that distract from other issues like the lack of integrated smoke alarms, and various other tenant issues & building management & cladding issues.

Yes, exactly.

There are other memorials that are created from the remains of a terrible tragedy like this one:

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25643103.amp

if you’ve lost someone in a tragedy that’s caused by other human neglect or wrongdoing, it’s important not to be erased.

The real scandal was the government official who said “show me the bodies” when they were told time and time again that flammable cladding should be banned on high rise buildings as it was dangerous. As was the corrupt insulation manufacturers who lied about safety certificates. And the contractors who sub-contracted out all responsibility without oversight. NONE of the issue was the tenants. Read the enquiry before you blame the victims.

Nobody is blaming the victims.

One of the most heartless things I have ever read.

My reference is Maxilla Garden, just nearby. Recently renovated. A bit nicer than it was, but hardly a “really nice” area. There’s benches. And nice plantings but the people who use the benches aren’t “really nice”. Popular with XL Bully dogs & fur-daddies playing tug of war with a rope or chain.

It’s a location where a park would need to be locked at dusk. If the park housed a “memorial” it would need to be … durable.

How so?

I’ve reported this thread. There are some absolutely disgusting comments suggesting “illegal immigrants” were in some way to blame for this tragedy. Read the Grenfell enquiry reports if you want to know who was to blame.

No one has suggested that illegal immigrants are to blame. How could they possibly be?

there is a “small quantity” of unidentified remains, at the Coroners Office. (Jan 2025 news)

They are not still in the tower.

From what I understand any prosecutions will be announced in 2026. As there are so many parties involved it makes sense it has taken this long to work out who knew what and who did or didn't know what.

I can also see as there hasn't been actual or percieved any justice for the death of the 71(!) people then any plans to remove the building will feel premature to them as if its just being swept under the rug.

The sad truth is that it will have to come down at some point as it will be a risk of causing further harm. I wonder whether it would be good to discuss what would the community have to happen to make them feel like they have justice for this tragedy, i.e. what would have to be done in order for the building to be removed.

You need it spelling out to you? Where to begin? Firstly the victims of the fire and their families have been treated appallingly. How many arrests have been made? The idea that they have been given ‘a huge amount of consideration’ is ludicrous.

The need to mention that people living there were doing so illegally which has absolutely no bearing on their right to not die in the most brutal way imaginable in a ticking time bomb that was wrapped in kindling to make it less of an eyesore for the rich neighbours.

Read the book “show me the bodies” if you want to understand the level of corruption and injustice that lead to 72 lives being lost, including children. The tower needs to stay until these victim’s families get some kind of justice.

You’re right ☹️

What do you think about the next steps with Grenfell

A lot of people are looking to be outraged without actually reading what I have said.
And no, I am not a troll.

Starmer and his mate Hermer are more interested in Shemima Begum, Gerry Adams, random people in Chagos than anyone here in UK …. Loads of money to be made apparently from donations etc

No prosecutions:
Grooming gangs Rotherham
School abuse scandal (Hesley Group Rotherham)
Grenfell
Etc

Starting to think it’s like USA before Trump, some weird obsession with gov giving justice & money & citizenship to others & not citizens.

Whilst their own people … they do NOT give a sheet.

So what would you like the next steps to be for Grenfell. What would make you think that they do care about the UK?