Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Is there a thread about the LA fires?

165 replies

Lelophants · 09/01/2025 07:12

I can’t see one anywhere. Scary stuff.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
GreenTeaLikesMe · 10/01/2025 03:31

Re: wood: In Japan where I live, wood was always the traditional building material as it has "give" in an earthquake, but anti-seismic concrete-and-steel is good too, in fact probably better (and is far less likely to kill you in a fire).

Europeans also used to build with a lot of wood, but by the 16th century or so we were literally running out of trees, so brick and stone became commoner across the UK and a lot of Europe. When Europeans went to America, they settled across a land that had huge forests and no shortage of timber, and then of course America made the transition towards fossil fuels before the forests could run out, and is still thinly populated compared with most of Europe. So there is ample timber for building.

In addition, many European countries have had to limit sprawl for various reasons and build up their cities more densely, which has encouraged a continued move towards non-combustible materials, as you really don't want densely packed cities full of wooden buildings for obvious reasons (Old Japanese cities used to do this, and they were constantly burning down!).

The US, which made the decision to build its cities around the car, allowed them to sprawl to very large sizes with very low-density suburbs, meaning that they have tended to continue to feel that's "safe" to use combustible materials for suburban houses. The trouble is that that strategy can't keep going forever, because as cities continue to sprawl, they start to expand into fire-risk areas (and flood-prone areas as well, for that matter), meaning that even the 'burbs start to be at risk of massive fires, as we are seeing now.

Is there a thread about the LA fires?
knitnerd90 · 10/01/2025 05:16

Canada and New Zealand also use timber framing. Aside from earthquake risk, many masonry buildings still have wood in them. They would have been left as burnt out shells.

(I live on the east coast, and cities here have brick and stone buildings with wood used in the suburbs.)

Re: the water shortage. Pacific palisades has storage tanks. They were completely full before the fire. They used that much water that they completely emptied them. People were also trying to soak their houses which lowered the pressure.

you've no idea how bad this was, and unusual even for California. There's always wildfires in the hills and people argue about whether building should be allowed there. The winds were so strong that the flat areas burned too.

on top of that, the last two years were very wet. Loads of vegetation; there were wildflower superblooms. This year was dry as a bone in Southern California. It hadn't rained here this year. So all that vegetation dried up and created an enormous fuel load. Southern California is a fire maintained environment. It's supposed to burn periodically. Just to add a little bonus to that, you know what got planted in California?eucalyptus.

This truly appears to be the perfect storm of circumstances.

GeneralPeter · 10/01/2025 06:59

herpastcanchangethefuture · 09/01/2025 07:43

I keeping seeing that insurance companies wouldn’t renew policies and so many people will be uninsured. I cant imagine how these poor people must be feeling . It must be devastating.

Yes. It's another tale of unintended consequences tragically. California voted a long time ago in a referendum that house insurance price increases have to be approved by an elected official.

Of course, elected officials don't want to raise prices because it's bad for their popularity. So the insurance markets break because insurers can't cover the risks at the prices they are required to charge. The result being that they have been pulling out. Also that the true fire risk never gets priced into the market so people are effectively subsidised to build in fire-prone areas. Not a good recipe.

BooberFraggle · 10/01/2025 07:27

There’s an interesting article here about climate migration in the US. https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/americas-great-climate-migration-has-begun-heres-what-you-need-know

according to the media the stats show that younger, wealthy people are leaving California for the likes of Texas and Florida. But Florida has its own issues with hurricanes which are likely to become more frequent. Texas will be affected by rising temps. The article talks about how more northern states will become the popular choice and how some currently densely populated areas may become uninhabitable.

America’s Great Climate Migration Has Begun. Here’s What You Need to Know.

Columbia researchers are developing innovative ways to protect communities most vulnerable to floods and other disasters.

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/americas-great-climate-migration-has-begun-heres-what-you-need-know

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2025 08:01

BooberFraggle · 10/01/2025 07:27

There’s an interesting article here about climate migration in the US. https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/americas-great-climate-migration-has-begun-heres-what-you-need-know

according to the media the stats show that younger, wealthy people are leaving California for the likes of Texas and Florida. But Florida has its own issues with hurricanes which are likely to become more frequent. Texas will be affected by rising temps. The article talks about how more northern states will become the popular choice and how some currently densely populated areas may become uninhabitable.

That is interesting. And interesting to see people making deliberate decisions about where they move according to climate concerns. As I say I know my friend certainly has.

But we also have, in line with that article, and our decision making process has sadly shown itself to be wise in the last couple of weeks with the flooding in the North West. We deliberately picked somewhere on higher ground knowing places we could have picked were at risk of flooding. We know 6 people who got flooded out last week.

What boogles my mind is a couple of proposed sites for new houses not to far from us. There's one particular site, which is pretty much on the banks of a river that has a sign up saying it's been acquired and approved for housing. It's a huge site and will be a good few hundred houses. Why on earth the council have given it planning is beyond my comprehension. It's incredibly flat and already prone to flooding never mind before they concrete it up. And surprise surprise the site flooded at New Year. It regularly floods. I know places nearby were flooded for days without support from authorities. It's totally criminal these sites are still being approved even in a housing crises and under pressure from government to build me houses.

There is the reality that flooding being regular means lots of people are going to be living with it happening semi regularly and without support as services are so overwhelmed in a crisis. The fact we had a critical incident declared is alarming.

It's insane that the Airport relief road (which was apparently climate change proof) flooded yet again and is still closed after it flooded at New Year. It's the 10th January and it's STILL closed. And yet this is normal.

We haven't left our area since Saturday at all due to the weather. This is very unusual for us. Fortunately we have enough food in so have decided to stick it out until things thaw. We are lucky enough to be able to stay put. We are on our 10th day of uninterrupted weather warnings... Lots of local schools are closed today. Again.

Moonlightstars · 10/01/2025 08:08

SabreIsMyFave · 09/01/2025 22:47

@icelolly12

Let's be real, this is getting a lot more news coverage than a lot of disasters around the world because it is a celebrity enclave,

Are you joking? The LA fires right now have more coverage than other parts of the world have had???

Every single night on the news for the past year and a half (virtually,) we have had news bulletins and film footage about the Israel/Palestine war. Sometimes 15-20 minute bulletins. Previously it was Syria. Again, 20 minute bulletins some nights, but it was always mentioned. And before that, (and during that,) conflict from other middle eastern countries. One after another, year after year. ALWAYS featured on the news.

Many things going on all over the world, disaster, war, and famine, but we are always fed news from the Middle East. They always show us Middle East unrest. It has more coverage than anything.

I don't think it matters that we are seeing coverage from somewhere else for a change (Los Angeles!) And this is huge devastating news. Are we supposed to not see it/have the news covered because some people there are wealthy and privileged? Many people losing everything are not wealthy and privileged you know!

Your comments are insensitive, inaccurate, and thoughtless.

.

Edited

The not inaccurate at all. When it comes to natural disasters it is well known phenomena that developed countries, particularly predominantly populated by english-speaking people get a lot more media coverage. This was a phenomena in the 1990s when I was at university and wrote a paper on it it has never changed.
Yes we have other news about other places, but certain countries get a disproportionate prominence in our media.
This is probably because it's harder for many people in the UK to relate to say people in Bhutan or the Philippines and it seems so other that it doesn't seem relevant. Where is with Australia, the US, Germany etc we can put ourselves into their position.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2025 08:22

Moonlightstars · 10/01/2025 08:08

The not inaccurate at all. When it comes to natural disasters it is well known phenomena that developed countries, particularly predominantly populated by english-speaking people get a lot more media coverage. This was a phenomena in the 1990s when I was at university and wrote a paper on it it has never changed.
Yes we have other news about other places, but certain countries get a disproportionate prominence in our media.
This is probably because it's harder for many people in the UK to relate to say people in Bhutan or the Philippines and it seems so other that it doesn't seem relevant. Where is with Australia, the US, Germany etc we can put ourselves into their position.

The principle that 1 life lost in the UK is equivalent to 3 or 4 in Europe, 10 in America and 100 or 1000 in different parts of the world depending on development levels.

Not all lives are regarded equally. There's something horrid in our mindset that 'oh well that just happens in that country' when it comes to deaths.

But that's also partly what is now biting us on the arse in terms of migration patterns and immigration rows. The push factors getting stronger are not going to be stopped by trying to weaken pull factors.

BooberFraggle · 10/01/2025 08:41

@RedToothBrush its good that you’ve already thought about flooding when choosing where to live. Sadly not all planners, etc are as sensible. My village never used to flood but now there are a couple of streets which flood at least once a year, the actual houses. The surface water sewer floods in really heavy rain which is becoming a more frequent phenomena. But they’ve agreed planning permission for 200 plus houses to be built on fields at the top of the worst affected road with no instruction to increase sewer capacity!

the city down the road is about to build on a massive area which in all my life has been known as the city’s flood plain. They will be building over a thousand houses!

Citygirlrurallife · 10/01/2025 08:43

InStarbucksRehab · 09/01/2025 22:28

once the fires have finished and everything is cleared away and they can rebuild are residents given the same piece of land to rebuild on where they owned their last home? (Imagining they can afford to do so) what happens to those who have no insurance? My heart is breaking for LA

also does anyone know of any go fund me style pages that are genuine?
id love to donate to help but im in the UK so not sure what pages are genuine.

such a sad situation and my thoughts and prayers are with all affected

I know multiple real go fund me campaigns for individuals, schools and communities if you PM me I’m happy to share

Citygirlrurallife · 10/01/2025 08:43

InStarbucksRehab · 09/01/2025 22:28

once the fires have finished and everything is cleared away and they can rebuild are residents given the same piece of land to rebuild on where they owned their last home? (Imagining they can afford to do so) what happens to those who have no insurance? My heart is breaking for LA

also does anyone know of any go fund me style pages that are genuine?
id love to donate to help but im in the UK so not sure what pages are genuine.

such a sad situation and my thoughts and prayers are with all affected

I know multiple real go fund me campaigns for individuals, schools and communities if you PM me I’m happy to share

Citygirlrurallife · 10/01/2025 08:46

Apologies for double post

user22446688 · 10/01/2025 10:15

Harassedevictee · 10/01/2025 01:38

Having watched one clip apparently some hydrants didn’t have water which impacted the response. I know there have been issues for quite a few years about water supply in general and wonder if this is one of the outcomes.

I visited LA for a day (cruise) and did a tour into the hills with a lookout point. I hadn’t appreciated just how vast LA is. Visualising that now and the loss of so many homes is devastating for everyone. I just hope the number of fatalities is small.

I have to confess to writing out my emergency list of what I would take if I had to evacuate quickly.

It's not that they didn't have water, it's that the demand was so high there wasn't enough water pressure to refill the system. Here's an explanation from National Geographic - it's an interesting article on the unique challenges of fighting wildfires in urban areas, so have included a link to the whole piece. With Trump and Musk currently spreading disinformation, it's really important for people to understand the facts.

During that roughly 15-hour window from the Palisades Fire sparking and the available water tanks running dry, Quiñones said the demand for water was four times the norm, causing water pressure to lower. This made it difficult to achieve the force needed to get water into the higher-elevation tanks, particularly at the rate necessary to address a fire moving five football fields a minute, boosted by the gusty Santa Ana winds.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/los-angeles-wildfires-water-scarcity

Here's what really caused L.A. fire hydrants to run out of water

As unprecedented wildfires raged through Los Angeles, some firefighters suddenly lost access to water. City officials called one shortage a “worst-case scenario”—one they expect to see again in the future.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/los-angeles-wildfires-water-scarcity

user22446688 · 10/01/2025 10:19

GeneralPeter · 10/01/2025 06:59

Yes. It's another tale of unintended consequences tragically. California voted a long time ago in a referendum that house insurance price increases have to be approved by an elected official.

Of course, elected officials don't want to raise prices because it's bad for their popularity. So the insurance markets break because insurers can't cover the risks at the prices they are required to charge. The result being that they have been pulling out. Also that the true fire risk never gets priced into the market so people are effectively subsidised to build in fire-prone areas. Not a good recipe.

Florida has no such laws and insurers have pulled coverage there left and right.

user22446688 · 10/01/2025 10:22

knitnerd90 · 10/01/2025 05:16

Canada and New Zealand also use timber framing. Aside from earthquake risk, many masonry buildings still have wood in them. They would have been left as burnt out shells.

(I live on the east coast, and cities here have brick and stone buildings with wood used in the suburbs.)

Re: the water shortage. Pacific palisades has storage tanks. They were completely full before the fire. They used that much water that they completely emptied them. People were also trying to soak their houses which lowered the pressure.

you've no idea how bad this was, and unusual even for California. There's always wildfires in the hills and people argue about whether building should be allowed there. The winds were so strong that the flat areas burned too.

on top of that, the last two years were very wet. Loads of vegetation; there were wildflower superblooms. This year was dry as a bone in Southern California. It hadn't rained here this year. So all that vegetation dried up and created an enormous fuel load. Southern California is a fire maintained environment. It's supposed to burn periodically. Just to add a little bonus to that, you know what got planted in California?eucalyptus.

This truly appears to be the perfect storm of circumstances.

This truly appears to be the perfect storm of circumstances.

Yes, and I gather, due to the winds, the fires came so fast they didn't have time to shut down the power lines as they ordinarily do, so burning power lines have contributed to the spread and scale.

BooberFraggle · 10/01/2025 12:12

user22446688 · 10/01/2025 10:22

This truly appears to be the perfect storm of circumstances.

Yes, and I gather, due to the winds, the fires came so fast they didn't have time to shut down the power lines as they ordinarily do, so burning power lines have contributed to the spread and scale.

I think you also need the power to still be on in some places to run the water pumps to keep getting the water uphill. Maybe they need massive reservoirs building at the top of the hills?

justasking111 · 10/01/2025 12:47

I hope when they rebuild that they

Lay electricity underground

Build roofing that collects water into underground tanks.

Put solar panels on roofing where possible.

They have the opportunity to amend building codes.

justasking111 · 10/01/2025 12:48

Oh and I hope the wealthy assist their staff financially.

Bewareofthisonetoo · 10/01/2025 13:08

Those who are saying climate change /it isn’t!
These have been the two wettest years in Ca - last Feb record rainfall of 12inches in 48 hours. The reason fur the devastation on negligent Democrat local authorities’ water management -hydrants not fit for purpose /totally scandalous /but heads won’t roll.

Bewareofthisonetoo · 10/01/2025 13:11

Those who are saying climate change /it isn’t!
These have been the two wettest years in Ca - last Feb record rainfall of 12inches in 48 hours. The reason for the devastation is negligent Democrat local authorities’ water management -hydrants not fit for purpose /totally scandalous /but heads won’t roll.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-breitbart-news-daily-podcast/id1592116227?i=1000683344378

The California Wildfires Situation; Guest: Former Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli on the Laken Riley Act

The California Wildfires Situation; Guest: Former Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli on the Laken Riley Act

Podcast Episode · The Breitbart News Daily Podcast · 09/01/2025 · 53m

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-breitbart-news-daily-podcast/id1592116227?i=1000683344378

midgetastic · 10/01/2025 13:15

The additional rain in the summer didn't help because it made things grow very well - and then the excess growth dried out in the autumn drought so double weather whammy - lots and lots of lovely flammable material

Yes, when you have climate change you need to spend more on maintenance

BooberFraggle · 10/01/2025 13:15

justasking111 · 10/01/2025 12:47

I hope when they rebuild that they

Lay electricity underground

Build roofing that collects water into underground tanks.

Put solar panels on roofing where possible.

They have the opportunity to amend building codes.

Also mandatory fire break zones every couple of blocks. Where there is no buildings or combustible material

BooberFraggle · 10/01/2025 13:17

You could even look at incorporating some sort of balancing ponds into the firebreak areas. Improve the fire break and also water storage

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/01/2025 13:33

Bewareofthisonetoo · 10/01/2025 13:08

Those who are saying climate change /it isn’t!
These have been the two wettest years in Ca - last Feb record rainfall of 12inches in 48 hours. The reason fur the devastation on negligent Democrat local authorities’ water management -hydrants not fit for purpose /totally scandalous /but heads won’t roll.

Climate deniers fiddling while Rome burns.

user22446688 · 10/01/2025 13:41

Bewareofthisonetoo · 10/01/2025 13:11

Those who are saying climate change /it isn’t!
These have been the two wettest years in Ca - last Feb record rainfall of 12inches in 48 hours. The reason for the devastation is negligent Democrat local authorities’ water management -hydrants not fit for purpose /totally scandalous /but heads won’t roll.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-breitbart-news-daily-podcast/id1592116227?i=1000683344378

This a steaming pile of absolute bullshit.

Tisthedamnseason · 10/01/2025 13:49

Bewareofthisonetoo · 10/01/2025 13:08

Those who are saying climate change /it isn’t!
These have been the two wettest years in Ca - last Feb record rainfall of 12inches in 48 hours. The reason fur the devastation on negligent Democrat local authorities’ water management -hydrants not fit for purpose /totally scandalous /but heads won’t roll.

But even if you're arguing climate change didn't cause this (debatable given what PPs have said about the increased growth that then dried etc) you can't deny climate change exists, what with all the record breaking rain you're referencing. Didn't that cause mudslides and deaths last winter?

Swipe left for the next trending thread