Biden- WTF

[DonnaSummet]

Is this really going to escalate things?
What is he thinking?!
Am I right to be in a total tizz over this 🤦🏼‍♀️

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/nov/18/ukraine-war-us-missile-atacms-joe-biden-volodymyr-zelenskyy-vladimir-putin-latest-news

YAnBU

If I wanted to say something bonkers, I'd say
vicious, nasty Brit hating old man decided to go out with a bang (pun not intended), because it doesn't matter to him.

He’s not escalating. Russia have been firing missiles at territory outside their own for over 2 years now. They are escalating at every step and we always allow Ukraine to respond with too little too late.

Yes but Ukraine aren't part of NATO and US need to tread more carefully. No one wants a Russia Vs NATO war. I don't get the relevance of your point at all, this isn't NATOs battle...

Of course he is escalating. We may agree or disagree with the need to escalate, but its still an escalation.

Putin escalated by bringing in North Korean troops to fight on his side. He's also been using North Korean missiles to attack civilian targets in Ukraine.

It strikes me as a relatively mild response by the West, aimed at deterring the North Koreans from upping their support for Putin.

Yeah I feel like you don't know much about diplomacy and international relations. It's a pretty measured response

Don't worry Trump will fix it all on his first day in office (or before) according to him. Maybe he will get peace negotiations started, both sides probably want out by now.

He is helping Ukraine whilst he can. If Zelenskyy can create some damage before Trump forces his hand to concede, good on him.

From a purely military point of view, it will make it almost impossible for the Russians to retake Kursk, which will leave Ukraine in a much stronger bargaining position in the eventual negotiations with Russia on ending the war.

No I don't hence the thread

Of course it's NATO's battle. We can either fight Russia by proxy in Ukraine, or we can fight them in person in the Baltics, and then Poland, and then Finland, and then... Which would you prefer?

It is highly unlikely Putin is going to directly target a NATO member. Ukraine is not a NATO member. My comment stands, this is not NATO's direct battle, that does not mean Biden shouldn't assist but he needs to be careful with escalating and what kind of support is being offered.

It's good to ask questions like this. There's a long-running thread in Chat about the war in Ukraine, and it has many knowledgeable (including some ex-forces people) discussing what's happening there.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5184558-ukraine-invasion-part-52

“It's good to ask questions like this“

I agree, the number of people who start threads and get mocked or shouted down at is appalling. Everyone has gaps in their knowledge, some have bigger gaps than others. But how are we ever to learn anything if we don’t ask questions?

Very immature of him tbh.

Perhaps a silly question but why does Ukraine need the US's 'permission' to defend itself? I don't understand why it can't just shoot missiles if it feels the need? They aren't governed by the US.

They need the $$$ worth of weapons that that US provides. Without foreign aid, Ukraine will run out of resources and weapons.

It's not a silly question. If they make the weapons themselves, they can do as they like with them. Ukraine has produced long-range attack drones and is using them against targets in Russia.

When other countries supply the weapons, they can come with conditions about how or where they can be used. For example, Ukraine could be told only to use them against purely military targets, and not against dual use targets like oil refineries. If they violate those conditions, the country that supplied the weapons might decide not to supply anymore, as they didn't honor the agreement.

It doesn’t change anything tactically.

Chill out.

Because the missiles are being provided by the US with explicit conditions on how they can be used, and these will be enforced in the targeting system. Put in target grid coordinates in that aren't within the permitted target area and it will be "computer says no". Think of it like a Netflix region block, but a lot less easy to get round.

YANBU

its a huge escalation and imho designed to make things more difficult for President elect Trump who can’t stop it until after his inauguration but will be left to pick up the pieces and will inevitably be blamed.

WW3 just got a whole lot closer.

I’ve just read that Sweden is preparing for war. So I think it probably has escalated things.

Ukraine has been firing US/UK long range missiles into "Russian" territory for at least year.
Putin has claimed Crimea as part of mother Russia since 2014.

Its not really any different, its just that Russia says it is.

But yet again, all too little all too late.