"Children don't add to happiness"

[emkana]

So says a professor who has done extensive research into what makes people happy. He also said in an interview in the Independent today:

"The presence of children detracts from the quality of marriage, at least to the quality of the modern, romantic, equal marriage. The situation becomes even more unhappy in modern marriages where the mother is working and looking after children."
But what of those who say that having children was the best thing they ever did? "These people might think so, but they don't know how life would have been if they hadn't had children." But the trend reverses at the age of 85, when those with children are happier than those without.

I think that's a load of rubbish, really! I am far far happier than any of my still childless friends. And what of the unhappiness that the yearning for a child can bring?
I can accept that children don't necessarily bring happiness for everybody, but to suggest that I only think I'm happy because I don't know how good my life would have been without children is just rubbish.
Anybody agree with this man?
The full article is here

I think they broaden your world, too. I've got interested in different things as each child got interested!

Remember this:
We are sitting at lunch when my daughter casually mentions that she and her husband are thinking of starting a family.
"we are taking a survey" she says half-joking. "do you think we should have a baby?"
"it will change your life" i say, carefully keeping my tone neutral.
"i know" she says "no more sleeping in on weekends, no more spontaneous holidays...."
But thats not what i meant at all. I look at my daughter, trying to decide what to tell her.
I want her to know What she will never learn in childbirth classes. I want to tell her that the physical wounds of child bearing will heal, but that becoming a mother will leave her with an emotional wound so raw that that she will be forever vulnerable.
I consider warning her that she will never again read a newspaper without asking "what if that had been my child?"
That every plane crash, every house fire will haunt her.
That when she sees pictures of starving children, she will wonder if anything could be worse than watching your child die.
I look at her carefully manicured nails and stylish suit and think that no matter how sophisticated she is, becoming a mother will reduce her to the primitive level of a bear protecting her cub. That an ugent call of "mum" will cause her to drop her soufle or best crystal without a moments hesitation.
I feel i should warn her that no matter how many years she has invested in her career, she will be professionally derailed by motherhood.
She moght arrange for childcare, but one day she will be going into an important buisiness meeting and she will think of her babies sweet smell. She will have to use every ounce of her discipline to keep from running home, just to make sure her baby is all right.
I want my daughter to know that everyday decisions will no longer be routine. That a five year old boys desire to go to the gents rather thatn the ladies in Mcdonalds will become a major dilemma. That right there in the midst of the clattering trays and screaming children, issues of independance and gender identity will be weighed against the prospect that a child molester may be lurking in the toilet.However decisive she may be at the office, she will second-gues herself instantly as a mother.
Looking at my attractive daughter, i want to assure her that she will shed the pounds of pregnancy, but she will never feel the same about herself. That her life, now so important, will be of less value to her once she has a child. That she would give it up in a moment to save her offspring, but will also hope for more years-not to accomplish her own dreams but to watch her child accomplish theirs.
I want her to know that a ceasarian scar or shiny streach marks will become badges of honour.
My daughters relationship with her husband will change, but not in the way that she thinks.
I wish she could understand how much more you can love a man who is careful to powder the baby or who never hesitates to play with his child. I think she should know that she will fall in love with him again but for reasons she would now find very unromantic.
I wish my daughter could sense the bond she will feel with the women through history who have treid to stop war, prejudice and drink driving. I hope she will understand how i can think rationally about most issues, but become temporarily insane when i discuss the threat of a nuclea war to my childrens future.
I want to describe to my daughter the axhilaration of seeing your child learn to ride a bike for the first time. I want to capture the belly laugh of a baby who is touching the fur of a cat or dog for the first time. I want her to taste the joy that is so real, it actually hurts.
My daughter's quizzical look makes me realise that tears have formed in my eyes.
"you will never regret it" i finally say. Then i reach across the table and squeeze her hand and offer a silent prayer for her,and for me and for all those mere mortal women who stumble their way into this most wonderful of callings.

Well, thats killed that thread!!!

Oh God! My dd totally has and the one due later this year is sending us doollally before s/he's even born!

PS. Although there is a lot of stress and worry to, I don't deny that. But overall, no question.

wow amazing post

That's beautiful Donbean, do you know the source?

Message withdrawn

No sorry, dont know the source. It was put on a thread entitled "amazed by feelings".
I think that the person who put it on got it from a book but she didnt say where or which book.
I just loved it so so much and cry every time i read it.
Ps i very quickly typed it out so sorry for spelling mistakes and typo's x

Can't access this article now unless I pay for it. I don't know if he mentioned that doing things for others brings happiness. For me that is what I find so rewarding - making my children happy. Isn't that totally natural? Sure it is hard, very hard at times but rewards don't come without hard work. I must admit I find that my childless friends (of which there are few now) do tend to whine about trivial things and seem awfully selfish. Also all that doing things for yourself kind of thing is just indicative of a 'me' society. In any case you can do plenty of things when you are older and the kids are grown up. I think age 85 is ridiculous as a benchmark.

I know for a fact I was fed up before I had kids, fed up of work, fed up of going out to the pub every weekend and just drifting along. No doubt if I'd not had kids or couldn't have them I would have felt I needed to do something for others, like charity work for example.

God sound like a proper little angel don't I?

Donbean - that is a beautiful post and so true. Such is my vulnerability at being a mom it has made me cry but I wouldn't have missed knowing all that for the world.

God how totally and utterly true is that Donbean -I cried whilst reading it - something I would probably not have done prior to dd! My life now totally revolves around dd (and dh of course and a teeny bit for me!) and if they are happy then so am I - apart from when I've got the old AF!!!
How someone can say children do not contribute to happiness obviously doesn't have children or doesn't have much to do with any he does!

That made me sniff cry too sniff

When my childless friends ask about what it is like to have a baby I say two things:

There are no words I could describe or no way that I could convey to you just how hard and tiring it is.

On the otherhand, there is just no way I could describe or convey to you just how much you will love your baby. everything else will fade into significance.

It's great to be able to gain joy from such small things. I have so many of those waves of pure contentment. They hit me suddenly without warning. It is just a moment in time that stands still and it is as if I am looking in at my family from the outside. Anyone else get that?

or rather - fade into insignificance

Just wanted to point out that 'this man' isn't saying anything about children or childraising in particular. What the researcher actually did was put together THOUSANDS of different pieces of research into what makes people happy, and looked at the overall conclusions. Amoung these is the fact that in general people without children rate themselves as just as happy or happier than people with children. They aren't asked to compare themselves to people with or without children btw, they just rate their own feelings of happiness, and the researchers then look at the correlations between health, income, lifestyle etc and their own self-rated feelings of happiness, and look at which elements correspond with high levels of happiness, and which don't. This is how research has shown that being poor does impact negatively on happiness, but that being very rich does not make you any happier than just having enough money to stop you worrying about bills and being in poverty in your old age. Nearly all research shows that self-rated happiness levels drop in your 30s and 40s, but climb when you get older. The researcher collected and analysed research so whether he himself has children is truly irrelevant. And having written articles about what really seems to make people happy, I can say his conclusions match exactly with the studies I have seen.

Point taken!

My personal view is that I love my family and am very, very happy with the changes that motherhood has brought to my life, but then I also think that winning a few million on the Lottery would also make me postively ecstatic!

here, here!

Oh god I hate surveys like this. How can you say with any certainty that you are happier as you are than you would be as you are not? (hope you understand.) Surely happiness depends fundamentally on the type of person you are, not the situation you are in. I am happy having my children but then again I am not happy being broke, losing the thread of a good career, not being able to have romantic breaks in Paris, and the thought of not being able to recreate my last great childfree holiday in the Canadian Rockies for another 15 years, when I will probably be too old to yomp up mountains, makes me very sad. On the other hand, I loved Donbean's post, all of it is absolutely true, once you have kids your own happiness is linked inextricably to theirs. I think you feel 'happy' if you feel fulfilled. You can feel totally fulfilled by a great career, but then when you retire what will fulfil you then? You can feel totally fulfilled by a child and the relationship wou have with them, but when that child becomes a drug addict/crack dealer/tory (ONLY JOKING!!!!!!!!) and causes you unimaginable disctress, what's the fulfilment there? Aloha's post is spot-on, I don't think children come into the equation when you look at global happiness - you can be just as happy with or without. I truly believe that happiness comes from within...

I am definitely happier too now I've had dd. Even with a toddler and working 2 days I still find being a mum and at home far less stressful than full-time work and no children, and I don't miss the childless days at all. Maybe it's because I was over 40 when I had her and I was growing tired of partying and going out. I did find that the people we were going out with were getting younger and younger, as everyone else was "settling down"!

What I meant to say in slightly shorter form.... I am truly glad I had my children, I am very happy having them, but if I had never had them, I am sure I would have been just as happy and fulfilled, but in a different way. Does that make sense?

The monotony of unrelieved responsibility does sometimes grind me down TBH. Oh well, roll on 85

I tend to agree that whether you're happy or not depends on what type of person you are. I remember once being on a jolly with a bunch of people on the Eurostar to Paris, and it broke down. None of us had paid for it, we were travelling first class, and Eurostar sent bottles of champagne and nibbles around to shut us all up while they fixed the engine.

Some people were delighted that they were getting free champagne and nibbles on top of their already free trip, other people complained about being late to get to Paris and were pissed off when the champagne ran out and there was only coffee left. The first group were delighted with the coffee.

Different attitudes, different perceptions of the same situation, different levels of happiness!

Thanks for clarifying that aloha.

Good point Caligula - dh and I would definately be happy with the free champagne and the sense of 'adventure' on a trip.

I've just had a shitty few days trying to quantify exactly how unhappy I am and why...So I wanted to say thank you one and all for this thread. I'm slightly dissatisfied and periodically frustrated, but deep down my annoying husband and my gorgeous gorgeous son make me happier than I can say.

You may have averted yet another banging-head-against-the-wall type argument. Thank you.