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The driver in the Wimbledon school accident won't be charged?

1000 replies

RiverF · 27/06/2024 06:23

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

It sounds like a unavoidable and unforeseeable medical incident led to the tragedy, but the families wanted justice.

I can't begin to imagine their pain, but this is the right decision?

School photo images of Nuria Sajjad, left, and Selena Lau - Nuria has glasses and her long dark hair in bunches; Selena is smiling at the camera and has part of her shoulder-length dark hair in a plait

Wimbledon school crash: Woman faces no charges over girls' deaths

Nuria Sajjad and Selena Lau were hit by a Land Rover after the driver suffered an epileptic seizure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

OP posts:
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9
Hazelville · 27/06/2024 16:04

kirinm · 27/06/2024 09:01

@Hazelville so have I - I watched my sister with uncontrolled epilepsy die when she was 19 because she kept fitting. I've also had about 30 myself so I'm very aware of what happens pre, during and post seizure.

There is no way anyone would have been able to have seen her immediately post scene and know that she had a seizure rather than had just been in a massive car crash.

I’m sorry for your loss.

Wheresthebeach · 27/06/2024 16:04

Redmat · 27/06/2024 15:06

We live in a society in which many people are no longer able to grasp the concept of an accident.
Somebody has to be blamed for every sad ,tragic incident that happens nowadays.
Horrific and terrible as this was , and nobody will underestimate the immense suffering of all those involved it was an accident.

Completely agree. Somehow we've become a society that must blame all the time. This was a horrific accident, and I feel for all involved.

SoupDragon · 27/06/2024 16:05

Youdontevengohere · 27/06/2024 14:56

This is the point I’ve been trying to make. People don’t seem to understand that the CPS are the prosecution, not the defence. If there was any challenging of the medical evidence to be done, the CPS would be the ones doing it in court. If they don’t think based on the evidence that a crime has been committed, why would they challenge that evidence in court? It’s nonsensical.

You'd think the P in their name would be a clue wouldn't you?

Jadebanditchillipepper · 27/06/2024 16:09

They won't have made this decision from the medical evidence alone - there will also be forensic evidence from the crash (Watch Crash Detectives on iplayer - it's absolutely fascinating how they piece together evidence to work out how a collision happened) - things like marks on the road, the little computer from the air bag that can tell how fast the car was going and how quickly deceleration happened, CCTV evidence - often they will follow a vehicle through several cameras to look for evidence of erratic driving before the accident happened etc etc.

Sometimes accidents happen and it isn't anyone's fault. It's very sad, but putting an innocent woman in prison isn't going to bring the two little girls back

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 27/06/2024 16:09

Now waiting for someone to ask 'what does CPS stand for, anyway?' 🙄

CreateUserNames · 27/06/2024 16:10

Scruffily · 27/06/2024 12:37

No-one is relying on her statement, they are relying on the evidence of neurological experts.

I really don't understand why you find this odd given the information about epilepsy on this thread. Quite simply, some types of seizures provably do leave people with big gaps in their memories around the time of the seizure. If you are going to say that is impossible, you need to produce some evidence.

You don’t have to persuade me anything. I have not said anything about the person involved. I simply found it odd, because of my own experiences with seizures that I had. I had said obviously there will be various experiences. However that doesn’t change how I fell about it.

friendlycat · 27/06/2024 16:10

Redmat · 27/06/2024 15:06

We live in a society in which many people are no longer able to grasp the concept of an accident.
Somebody has to be blamed for every sad ,tragic incident that happens nowadays.
Horrific and terrible as this was , and nobody will underestimate the immense suffering of all those involved it was an accident.

This is so very true.

It was an utterly tragic and awful accident. But sometimes we just have to accept that awful tragic accidents happen.

If the driver (mid 40s year old woman) had suffered a heart attack at the wheel instead, having no history of heart disease etc would some people still be insisting this go to court?

parkrun500club · 27/06/2024 16:16

gahhbored · 27/06/2024 09:20

Oh gosh, it doesn't work that simplistically – it's not about faking medical evidence, but about opportunistically leveraging on the foundation of evidence. I won't repeat it, but there's a nickname within the profession for those doomed to legal aid/public defense – very much not the case here. There's a reason people pay for top tier defense, even if it means mortgaging their vacation villas.

The point is that doctors aren't going to put their reputation and livelihoods on the line to keep someone out of jail (and potentially go to jail themselves) Unless she happens to have a neurosurgeon as a relative. But I think the police/CPS might look into that very carefully if she did?

It is actually quite possible that she had a seizure and wasn't just driving too fast.

I guess it could be the case that both were in play.

Usually people who kill people driving ARE prosecuted. Personally I am happy to accept that sometimes things just happen, nobody is to blame and it's not about getting rich people off.

Also, if you disagree with someone, please just disagree without patronising. The first line of your comment was not needed. I am really quite fed up with MNers being patronising.

parkrun500club · 27/06/2024 16:18

LuluBlakey1 · 27/06/2024 15:56

Perhaps they should think about it. Perhaps the world should. The problem would be all the well-off people who wield power in the West who would moan be on the uprise at the thought of not being allowed their status symbols, and the motor industry who would blanch at the thought of billions of profit lost.

Bugger the environment! Protect our right to buy or sell whatever we like, no matter what damage it causes or whether we need it.

Exactly.

LordSnot · 27/06/2024 16:19

CreateUserNames · 27/06/2024 16:10

You don’t have to persuade me anything. I have not said anything about the person involved. I simply found it odd, because of my own experiences with seizures that I had. I had said obviously there will be various experiences. However that doesn’t change how I fell about it.

"Facts don't influence my view." Interesting approach.

WiddlinDiddlin · 27/06/2024 16:27

For everyone saying 'but smaller cars are safer, these big tanks are so dangerous, if she hadn't been driving a ... ' ..

Those safety tests do not in any way replicate this accident.

They involve a straight collision of single, standing test dummys and show that smaller, differently shaped vehicles the victim tends to go over the bonnet not under it.

This does NOT apply in the type of crash this was... if you ploughed a Corsa through that fence and a bunch of kids sat around a table and into a wall, you would STILL see severe injuries/deaths.

Safewater · 27/06/2024 16:36

WiddlinDiddlin · 27/06/2024 16:27

For everyone saying 'but smaller cars are safer, these big tanks are so dangerous, if she hadn't been driving a ... ' ..

Those safety tests do not in any way replicate this accident.

They involve a straight collision of single, standing test dummys and show that smaller, differently shaped vehicles the victim tends to go over the bonnet not under it.

This does NOT apply in the type of crash this was... if you ploughed a Corsa through that fence and a bunch of kids sat around a table and into a wall, you would STILL see severe injuries/deaths.

MN can be strange about cars. I drive a high mileage 10yr old Volvo estate, would that fall into tanksville, I need it for work? Although I have radar braking, so would assume my car would have stopped - surprised a state of the art Land Rover wouldn't have that feature.

There are plenty of smaller cars which would do just as much damage and size does not alway equal environmentally friendly.

Youdontevengohere · 27/06/2024 16:43

parkrun500club · 27/06/2024 16:16

The point is that doctors aren't going to put their reputation and livelihoods on the line to keep someone out of jail (and potentially go to jail themselves) Unless she happens to have a neurosurgeon as a relative. But I think the police/CPS might look into that very carefully if she did?

It is actually quite possible that she had a seizure and wasn't just driving too fast.

I guess it could be the case that both were in play.

Usually people who kill people driving ARE prosecuted. Personally I am happy to accept that sometimes things just happen, nobody is to blame and it's not about getting rich people off.

Also, if you disagree with someone, please just disagree without patronising. The first line of your comment was not needed. I am really quite fed up with MNers being patronising.

Edited

Also, the women in question won’t have paid for a defence, because she hadn’t been charged with anything. You don’t need a defence if you’re deemed not to have committed a crime.

CreateUserNames · 27/06/2024 16:43

LordSnot · 27/06/2024 16:19

"Facts don't influence my view." Interesting approach.

Other people’s views are not facts.

SocoBateVira · 27/06/2024 16:44

Staringatthewalljustmeagain · 27/06/2024 14:05

Jesus Christ. I’m scared that some of the witch-hunting ignoramuses on here will sit on juries one day. 😬

It's really quite concerning.

tigger1001 · 27/06/2024 16:49

CandidHedgehog · 27/06/2024 15:52

Also, the people screeching about how ‘she’ (the driver) should have to ‘prove it in court’ (by which I assume they mean her innocence of any crime) - that isn’t how the court system works.

Every person walks into court as innocent. The prosecution then has to prove them guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Nobody ever has to prove they are innocent of an offence - instead the prosecution has to prove they are guilty.

Not only do the people insisting public interest and interest of the public are the same thing want to fundamentally alter when people are charged with crimes, they also want to reverse the burden of proof when those people are dragged to court (but only when a 10 minute tabloid article means they are totes sure the defendant is guilty, of course). Absolutely terrifying.

Edited

Absolutely this!!!

User2460177 · 27/06/2024 16:55

MultiplaLight · 27/06/2024 06:26

It could have been her first seizure. We don't know. No one could have predicted it. It's a horribly tragic accident.

It says in the article it was her first seizure and she had never had one before. Sadly it’s a tragic accident

Ksqordssvimy · 27/06/2024 16:56

LordSnot · 27/06/2024 15:40

Er, no. Some have, some haven't.

Who @LordSnot - don't most people, papers included, understand how the CPS works? You can report the mum's statement (which every news outlet has done) without calling for a witch hunt.

JellyBeanFactory · 27/06/2024 17:11

One of the selling points of these expensive large SUVs is the safety features.

This car has a forward collision warning system which works by monitoring the road ahead of you and issuing audio and visual alerts if it senses an imminent collision.

It also has automatic and emergency braking system. This displays a warning in the event of an imminent collision and automatically applies the brakes if no action is taken by the driver.

I wonder why these didn't come into effect?

CandidHedgehog · 27/06/2024 17:13

JellyBeanFactory · 27/06/2024 17:11

One of the selling points of these expensive large SUVs is the safety features.

This car has a forward collision warning system which works by monitoring the road ahead of you and issuing audio and visual alerts if it senses an imminent collision.

It also has automatic and emergency braking system. This displays a warning in the event of an imminent collision and automatically applies the brakes if no action is taken by the driver.

I wonder why these didn't come into effect?

Do they work if the foot is firmly pressed on the accelerator (quite possible with a seizure)? I wonder if that overrides the safety features.

needtonamechangeforthis1 · 27/06/2024 17:15

RiverF · 27/06/2024 08:19

I can't agree with the view that because other, necessary, large vehicles are on the roads, SUVs should be there too. If you halve (or whatever %) the number of these vehicles on the road you halve the risk.

Also many of those large vehicles require specialist driving tests.

Who are you to judge whether her driving an SUV was reasonable though?

This was an ACCIDENT the same outcome could well have occurred with a smaller vehicle. Stop looking for people to blame when there is none.

JellyBeanFactory · 27/06/2024 17:16

I don't know @CandidHedgehog - I'm
hoping someone more mechanically minded can answer.

But I do know if I'd paid top money for all those bells & whistles, I'd want them to work in an emergency.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 27/06/2024 17:20

Staringatthewalljustmeagain · 27/06/2024 14:05

Jesus Christ. I’m scared that some of the witch-hunting ignoramuses on here will sit on juries one day. 😬

This thread is enough to make me think we should abolish trial by jury.

LordSnot · 27/06/2024 17:21

Ksqordssvimy · 27/06/2024 16:56

Who @LordSnot - don't most people, papers included, understand how the CPS works? You can report the mum's statement (which every news outlet has done) without calling for a witch hunt.

Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. I think you're posting to the wrong person.

LordSnot · 27/06/2024 17:22

CreateUserNames · 27/06/2024 16:43

Other people’s views are not facts.

Glad you realise that. But it is a fact that seizures vary wildly and your experience isn't universal.

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