Shannon Matthews Mother arrested !!!!!

[kay1981]

They have arrested her on perverting the course of justice - which i think means lying to the police under oath doesnt it?

Is it at all possible that they knew where she was all the time?

Perhaps cahnnel 4 should now re-show the documentary on shannons family and see how it is received knowing what we know.

Piffle

I don't actually know enough about this case to have a really strong feeling for or against Karen Matthews. I don't even know what she is supposed to have done. I said earlier that I was against any action that would encourage vigilantism against this family.

My point was more general - that I do not believe it is in anyone's interests for a mother to have lots of children by multiple fathers.

But that was 'judgemental and ignorant'.

Piffle "Class and benefit scrounging cause vigorous debate here.
But what is the point?"

For some of us the point is just that, to have an interesting debate with lots of different imput. We are allowed to do that on MN, indeed its the most stimulating part about it.
Its not so much aimed at KM cos you're right we don't know her. Its just happened on this thread, we could start a new one, but threads evolve and you've brought us back to the header.

But FridayFeeling..no-one here is 'running scared' as you put it!! You sound like a playgound taunt.."ooh can't say it to her face can you"..good grief.

Oh dear.

Look, you simply cannot judge another person by your own standards. All you can do is stick to your own.

KM is obviously not a very bright woman. That is not a crime, in itself. Whatever else she has done is up to the judiciary to decide.

I will say that many of the comments on this thread do not exactly endear myself to the posters.

A woman with such a driven desire to never be without a man ... who gets pregnant with every partner in order to cement a relationship, is not, really, a calculating individual, is she?

She is the product of a bad childhood, which leads to the desire for approval. If you are not well-educated, the desire of a man is an adequate substitute.

Yes, she's a twat.

But she ain't the only one.

I totally agree that a debate is what this is all about. But lets face facts, IC posting suddenly makes it more real and suddenly sweeping generalisations don't seem appropriate.

edam - Funny being called "frantic" for pointing to a simple observation.

They hooked up when he was 17 (!) and her last kid was months old. Do you think he was supporting her and her kids then?

In 2 years, they have a baby. You think she is supporting the family then? You think he was gaining enough to support all of them?

With kids aged 11, 10, 9, 7, 6, 5, and 2, how often do you think she worked full time in the last decade?

I am not a gambling person, but this is as near as you can get to a sure bet. I would bet even money that KM was and is on benefits.

Sorry, not feeling 'frantic' at all. Just saying what my rational mind tells me is most probably going on here.

Desiderada "Look, you simply cannot judge another person by your own standards"

But then you judged her a twat!!!!

You see we all have our own values and beliefs and its quite fair to discuss and state them. Why do so many on MN keep saying 'don't judge'??? Would they rather we were mindless zombies with no views on life. maybe we should head all threads 'tupperware a good thing, discuss' for fear of offending or disagreeing!!!

Ah, but you've taken my out of context, Microwave.

I then went on to imply that most of us are.

I'm as good at judging as the next person, but I think that this thread has degenerated into who gets what benefits, and on a scale of 1 to 10, how depraved that makes them.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about KM, or her family, tbh. I don't know them, you see.

But when someone implies that a recipient of family tax credits is in some way more likely to abuse their children, then I put my boxing gloves on.

"Would they rather we were mindless zombies with no views on life."

Micro - it does look like you have no views of your own. Only those of the Daily Mail and what d'establishment want us to believe.

oops I made that fatal MN error of not reading all 835 posts!! Your last point is a bit , MN not so much Boden wearers as daily mail readers hmm!!

Hmm, let's see. Never mind 'is it only OK to be have lots of children by different biological co parents if you're a man' or even 'it's only OK to have kids by different co-parents if you are rich' - is it only OK to have religious/superstitious/personal objections to contraception/abortion if you are wealthy or married?
There are a lot of DailyMail types who bang on about the horrors of abortion, a lot of sentimental rubbish spouted about the wonders of motherhood and the specialness of having babies: maybe Karen Matthews bought into some of this crap rather than just being a Bad Person. There are certainly plenty of men who want to cement every new relationship with a baby then fuck off before they have to change a nappy, after all.

Bollocks - anyone who has seven kids by four (or five - she's not sure) men is a knuckle-dragging idiot.

End of.

My mum made a mistake - anyone is entitled to that. But the difference is that she realised she had made a mistake and tried her best to rectify it by concentrating on what kids she had - she didn't go out and shag anyone who looked at her and produce even more kids.

If she did - i would be a different person to what i am now - that's for sure.

i really feel for Shannon. i hope this whole sorry saga gets her somewhat towards her sub-concious goal of being the slightest bit happy, loved and secure.

Coming from that kind of family can only mean so far she has experienced a fractured, unsecured and screwed-up life so far, in what should have been the years that she felt secure, loved and innocent - instead she has been exposed to all the fucked up things that adults can do.

Some people should never be allowed to have kids.

Are you proposing that prospective parents do a roadworthiness test? Perhaps centralised control of every women's (for it would have to be the women's) reproductive parts. I'm not sure how it would work in practice - maybe the model devised in the People's Republic of China, only slightly more draconian in that no-one would be allowed children until they had a Certificate of Parental Health and Wellbeing.

The more women's prospects are improved (in terms of autonomy, rights and status) the fewer children they have, and the better they care for the children they do have. Girls who are simultaneously regarded as part of the 'underclass' and not worth bothering with = pretty much told that their future lies in shelf-stacking, burger-flipping or a life on the dole - and peddled endless sentimental crap about how motherhood is the most wonderful important thing a woman can do and how 'career women' are selfish bitches who will 'regret' not breeding, often have babies early and have lots of them. Because if the first babyfather fucks off, the next one might be Mr Right - and after all, having babies is what they have been led to believe they are supposed to do. They might be inadequate parents, they might be trapped in poverty and they might, after a while, regret having so many kids if they're not numbed by the daily demands of staying alive, but if asked will still claim that they love their kids and that's what matters, and contrast themselves favourably with the (often fictitious) women who Left it Too Late because they were Career Bitches.

Cote - come on, you grasping at straws to make this about benefits and have moved on to try to throw mud about tax credits. You are speculating about history when none of us know very much at all about KM's current financial situation except her partner has a job, let alone her bank statements from five years ago!

I don't know if it's escaped your notice but FWIW 17 year olds are allowed to work... and one more fact, some of KM's children live with their fathers. So her partner may not be supporting them, who knows?

microwave I meant what is the point in relation to this case of Karen Matthews. I otherwise enjoy debate on this subject as I am from another country with no class structure per se, so find it highly amusing to watch discussion about something, that to me is pure Little Britain behaviour. I also have three kids to two fathers, survived on benefit etc so have a generous perspective in that regard and am unwilling to lay judgement that is gleaned from speculative opinion.
but maybe I'm alone in that!

Wow.

It's really something when a post consisting entirely of the word 'fuck' ISN'T the most offensive, witless and stupid post on the thread.

FWIW I have one child by one man to whom I am married - but I don't think that makes me 'better' than anyone else. My father was divorced twice yet is very upright and respectable - highly regarded in his profession, school governor, etc. etc. etc.

I do think this 'lots of children by different fathers = bad' idea is both misogynist and reflects class prejudice.

"I do think this 'lots of children by different fathers = bad' idea is both misogynist and reflects class prejudice"

I think it is unfair for the children, regardless of class. Whether Karen Matthews or Ulrika Jonhnson, having various children from so many different fathers is not a good idea IMO.

How about men who have kids by different women? I don't see any public debate or criticism of them - Rod Stewart, for instance...

I think men like that are as irresponsible as women tbh. I wouldn't want a man like that anywhere near me.

[joins edam and piffle at the brick wall]

I wonder how the children feel to be part of such a family? TBH i think most adults are so concerned with being PC and agreeing that we all have right to do anything -within the law- that we want that we forget the real people whose opinions matter wont be able to tell us for 10/15 years

but why isnt it a good idea?hw is it detrimental to the children in the long run if they are loved and well cared for?

EricL-your post was disgustingly offensive,however as you share the views of my xp i can only speculate that you are a wife-beater who has a problem with his ex wife's new relationship.