Is life really worse under Labour or am I taking the Torygraph (essential reading chez Moondog) too seriously? Particularly interested in what you old gimmers who remember thatcher have to say.

[moondog]

Thanking yew.

good point re mature students, peachy.

I remember when I was at university - the best seminars were the ones with a higher proportion of older students. I think they should strong;y discourage 18 year olds from going.

I did a course with lots of mature students on it, and I think they often got more out of going than those of us who were fresh out of school.

No it isn't. But we are probably heading for a resession, so they will milk it for all it's worth. Truth is, this probably would ahve happend ealier under the tories. And the NHS is certainly better.

and did you know that teh Major govenment were almost indicted by Bosnia in the human rights court for supporting the Serb massacres?

Fairy, I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: it was the Tories who introduced targets and league tables into the NHS... And virtually all of the other public sectors...

Jesus!! I'm posting under wifes login here, anyone who has half a brain and experienced any of thatchers destructive rule and who may be still suffering will agree she should be shot.
We are still suffering from her attack on any kind of viable industry in this country.
Will be holding a street party when the old nappy wearing boot finally dies and everyone is invited.

I wouldn't shoot her...I would make her sell her house and all the assets she acquired since becoming an MP, build council houses with the money and make her live in one of those homes where they all sit in a row on wet seats with lolling heads

Ruth Lea as head of the Institute of Directors consistently opposed various improvements in maternity rights and other family friendly policies.

Interestingly though, in an interview I found with her from 2001, while she was opposed to regulation on maternity leave, she also spoke up against rail privatisation (by the Tories) and tube privatisation (by a Labour government) but praised Ken Livingstone's efforts.

Mr Jbck again, anyone who is under the impression she was in any way good for the UK should do some research into some or all of these topics:
British steel, British coal (mines and actions of gvt during strike), the sun/Murdoch/Wapping, milk, GCHQ, arms to iraq, council housing sell off, privitisation of dozens of companies (benefiting the shareholders) NHS underfunding, British Rail (still suffering), opposition to ANC, homophobia (sec 28), economy during tory rule, falklands, reagan, wages council abolition.

I could go on but lets be thankful even her so called allies stabbed her in the back to get rid of her and she has made the tories practically unelectable (if not for the war)
And remember for those in Scotland the SNP voted with the tories in 79.

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but i am forgtting not all of the posters here have experienced any of this.

Remember free drink at the street party when she goes!

count me in Mr Jbck.
I can't believe that anyone has to ask this question.
it isn't that long ago.
I hate her, really, and with very good reason. she caused so much pain and misery and damage and it was personal

anyway I'm with Elvis Costello on this one

Actually Peachy, while I wish what you said about HE was true in general, unfortunately it isn't: the introduction of university fees and student loans has virtually wiped out the mature student population at university. In particularly vocational courses (eg nursing, physio, social work etc) there are more, but almost all 'traditional' subjects are filled with 18-21 year olds now.

I have very mixed feelings about this bit of the New Labour legacy, like the Iraq war. Difficult to see how universities could be funded without fees, but impossible for many bright people to go with the huge financial burden...

Bozza, take it from someone whose circumstances have not changed at all in the last 3 years, ie our family has not increased, we have not had childcare costs, we have paid the same mortgage and dh has been in the same job on the same salary in all that time: our disposable income has plummeted.

I personally cannot wait for Labour to shuffle off.

DG, how much of that is the Labour Govt alone directly responsible for?

MB I think that actually depends on the University- stats for the 'community universities' (mainl;y former polys) are different. My course is as least vocational as you can get btw- religion and philosophy!

Student loans and the removal of grants, along with various other cuts in money available to full time students, were introduced under the Tories. I graduated just in time, but 1st years when I was a 3rd year were getting loans instead of grants, and that was (gulp) 18 years ago this summer. Only tuition fees were brought in by a Labour government.

interest rates go up as well as down, dg. you know that when you sign up for a mortgage. bills have also gone up lately, but that's to do with world economics - not the government's fault.

do you remember how high they went under the last tory govt?

I think Labour's slogan at the next election should be

"vote labour. the least bad option"

I don't think student loans are such a terrible thing actually. the previous system was effectively a subsidy for the middle classes. should be a grad tax (as in a percentage of salary) rather than a loan though.

anyway, where has moondog gone? surely she hasn't been scared off?

I agree about the loans- I look on it as a tax on the extra education I am receiving, which seems fair as I am the only one of my contremporaries to receive degree level education. Whilst I am not earning (going straight into 'maternity leave' for ayear) or if i ame arning a low wage I won't have to pay- and the amopunt set for the start of repayments, whilsta dmitedly low for those in places like London, is quite a high wage for here (south wales).

if student loans are the worst thing we have to worry about - we are doing pretty good!

I wish student loans were the wort thing

An interesting quote re. tax under Labour from david cameron's Mumsnet webchat that made me go :

"Actually, I think the problem in recent years hasn?t simply been that taxes have gone up, but that people see so much of the money has been wasted. We simply haven?t had the sorts of improvements in schools and hospitals ? or indeed in social justice ? that we should have seen, for the extra money the Government has taken in tax."

(Emphasis mine)

Just seemed like such a response from a Toy leader; does anyone REALLY think that if Labour were not in power then social justice would have increased?!?!?!!

I do find it hilarious when people blame Thatcher for things that are wrong now.

1997 was a long time ago in political terms.

There is just as much sleaze and corruption in this govt as there was in the last Tory govt.

These Labour politicians are out for as much they can get personally from the public purse it seems to me.

I don't think anybody is, Cam - we are merely remembering and blaming Thatcher for the terrible things she did, and god knows there are plenty of them, and all far worse than anything New Labour has done (except Iraq, possibly, but if that had blown up in her time - instead of Saddam being an ally against Iraq and a friendly customer then - what do you think she would have done?)

But it seems we are accepting low quality policians just because they "aren't as bad as Thatcher"

I was paying almost 16% interest on my first mortgage - and no it wasn't sub prime - it was a ordinary Halifax first time buyer mortgage on a standard rate. So in my opinion its much better under Labour as they have controlled the economy much more efficiently - in particular allowed the Bank of England to control interest rates.