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Dominic Cummings Covid evidence

996 replies

Newtonianmechanics · 31/10/2023 09:17

Is anyone going to watch this man give evidence today?

Apparently there is a vigil in Barnard Castle ahead of this.

The shopping trolleys emoji seems to mean they think Carrie was controlling Boris from the last few days. Wonder if this will feature.

OP posts:
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minou123 · 04/11/2023 08:28

jgw1 · 04/11/2023 05:44

Presumably Priti's evidence will be part of her campaign to replace Rishi, quite how that pans out at the enquiry i am not sure.

I don't think that will go down well.

If I remember correctly Priti Patel was the Home Secretary at the time.

I can't remember much about her input for covid.
The only thing that springs to mind, is she tried to encourage us all to report our neighbours if they were breaking covid rules.

minou123 · 04/11/2023 10:49

I'm just catching up with last week's testimony.

What I think my be controversial, but my opinion, is Brexit has a lot to do with why the UK was so unprepared for covid and the awful Tory government attitudes.

Quite a few people have said there was this over confidence from Spads, Ministers and the PM that the UK "is the best".
They didn't look at what other countries were doing, in fact mocked other EU countries.

And they had this general attitude of "UK is world-beating in everything, so we'll be alright".

Boris, Dominic and the other Ministers, who were in government when covid hit, were strong Leavers and spent years campaigning for Brexit.

They told so many lies during the Leave campaign, that they actually started to believe them.

They spent years repeating the same old thing "The UK is the best, the EU is the worst".
So when Covid hit, this narrative was so ingrained, they absolutely refused to learn or look at other countries data.

In March 2020, it hit hard the UK wasn't the best, but by then it was too late.

My opinion is this arrogant attitude is as a result from Brexit.

It had a huge impact on how the government dealt with covid.

I think we should learn that we can be proud of our country.

But we should always be humble and have some humility to never think the UK is the best at everything.
Working as a community, especially with the EU, is important..

DuncinToffee · 04/11/2023 11:15

Iirc Brexit was cited by Hancock as a factor in the previous module, staff and resources were moved from the DoH to work on a non deal Brexit

minou123 · 04/11/2023 12:07

Oh yes @DuncinToffee , that as well.

I think I am getting cross at the number of times they keep saying "The UK is World-beating in ......"

I'm going have to calm down because we are going to hear "World-Beating" over and over again in this Inquiry - especially when we get to the Module about the Vaccines.

😡

Newtonianmechanics · 04/11/2023 12:42

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

Interesting timing. Obviously not to do with the inquiry but linked as more evidence how the government was run.

OP posts:
minou123 · 04/11/2023 12:56

Newtonianmechanics · 04/11/2023 12:42

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

Interesting timing. Obviously not to do with the inquiry but linked as more evidence how the government was run.

She might be telling the truth and maybe there was a "movement" to remove BJ in 2019 as PM

The problem I have is: I dont trust anything that comes out of Nadine Dorries mouth.

She has a huge motivation to say these things, whether they are true or not:
She wants a peerage,
She believes she deserves a peerage
Rishi and Co have blocked her from getting a peerage.
She now knows she will never get a peerage

Personally, I want to hear from someone else that there was a movement to remove BJ.

EasternStandard · 04/11/2023 13:06

I’d love to know why Cummings focused on partygate as his next campaign after Brexit

He was fired right? Before he started it, so revenge for that

Wonder why he was fired

PerkingFaintly · 04/11/2023 13:06

Yeah, was going to say pretty much what Minou did.

Interesting suggestion that Tory party strategy was an intentional "bait and switch" - use one candidate to get a majority from the electorate, then swiftly replace them with the internal party choice for Prime Minister.

But it's Dorries, so high chance of being completely untrue.

BIossomtoes · 04/11/2023 13:26

Dorries has to be the most unreliable witness in existence, discounting Johnson obviously.

PerkingFaintly · 04/11/2023 13:29

Sadly, I find all that ludicrous, complacent "world-beating" guff entirely predictable. Johnson & co have been enacting the third generation of "clogs to clogs in three generations."

First generation does the clever stuff and puts the work in, gets the business started and builds it up.

Second generation inherits wealth and a functioning business, but also remembers the period before the wealth, and saw the work, judgment and input it took to create that wealth.

Third generation inherits the wealth and hasn't the first idea where the money came from or what went into acquiring it. Members suffer from an impenetrable superiority complex and imagine that their family is rich because of some innate virtue of being cleverer and better than others. They haven't a scooby how to run the business or of the need to put the hours in, and they treat the business like a cash cow and destroy it with repeated insane ideas.

The UK is in it's third generation, so to speak. Cameron & Osborne (more inherited wealth), were the first that stood out to me. Johnson, Cummings and their mob of elite little boys are more of the same – but on overdrive.

I've been down about this for a long time. There's much I disapprove of Blair for, but New Labour squared the circle by getting the UK to reinvent itself as a modern, post-imperial country, settling in to a new relationship with the world but still punching above its weight.

The Cameron/Osborne/Johnson/Cummings types have thrown it all away.

Farage and the other nostalgia-mongers lured people with a promise of Forward To The Past - when that past no longer exists because the UK is no longer HQ of the largest empire the world has ever seen.

So to me, Johnson's behaviour is completely consistent with the bigger picture. He's personally a narcissist, sure, so will always imagine himself individually to be superior. But he and his idiots are symptomatic of a larger problem.

jgw1 · 04/11/2023 13:35

PerkingFaintly · 04/11/2023 13:06

Yeah, was going to say pretty much what Minou did.

Interesting suggestion that Tory party strategy was an intentional "bait and switch" - use one candidate to get a majority from the electorate, then swiftly replace them with the internal party choice for Prime Minister.

But it's Dorries, so high chance of being completely untrue.

I've seen no recent evidence that the Tory party is capable of having a strategy for anything, so I also think it unlikely.

jgw1 · 04/11/2023 13:38

DuncinToffee · 04/11/2023 13:35

Preview of what Johnson's evidence could contain

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67315910

We repeatedly had no good choices because the man supposedly in charge refused to listen to advice and make any decisions until we were only left with bad options. I thought everyone knew that by now?

minou123 · 04/11/2023 13:53

First generation does the clever stuff and puts the work in, gets the business started and builds it up.

Second generation inherits wealth and a functioning business, but also remembers the period before the wealth, and saw the work, judgment and input it took to create that wealth.

Third generation inherits the wealth and hasn't the first idea where the money came from or what went into acquiring it. Members suffer from an impenetrable superiority complex and imagine that their family is rich because of some innate virtue of being cleverer and better than others. They haven't a scooby how to run the business or of the need to put the hours in, and they treat the business like a cash cow and destroy it with repeated insane ideas.

This is incredibly insightful @PerkingFaintly
I hadn't thought of it like that.

Boris's superiority complex and wanting be viewed as the "next Winston Churchill" was and is completely flawed.
And it feeds onto to your third generation description.

What BJ completely neglected to realise was Churchill achieved what he did by building allies, bringing in allies he may not have personally liked (Stalin) and also bringing in opposition views and opinions.
As you say, BJ and others did not have the first clue about what it takes.

minou123 · 04/11/2023 14:04

jgw1 · 04/11/2023 13:38

We repeatedly had no good choices because the man supposedly in charge refused to listen to advice and make any decisions until we were only left with bad options. I thought everyone knew that by now?

Everyone knows that now, except the man who was in charge. 😁

It looks like there's not going to be any admissions of fault from BJ. But that's no surprise.

minou123 · 05/11/2023 13:38

I think tomorrow witnesses are:

10:30 am
Clare Lombardelli (Former Chief Economic Adviser, HM Treasury)
Stuart Glassborow (Former Deputy Principal Private Secretary to the Prime Minister)

2:00 pm
Dr Ben Warner (Former Special Adviser at No. 10) (Former Special Adviser at No. 10)

I think in particular Ben Warner will be interesting. Dominic Cummings brought Ben in as a Special Adviser.
It'll be interesting if they are still best friends or if hevwill turn on him.

Newtonianmechanics · 05/11/2023 14:03

minou123 · 05/11/2023 13:38

I think tomorrow witnesses are:

10:30 am
Clare Lombardelli (Former Chief Economic Adviser, HM Treasury)
Stuart Glassborow (Former Deputy Principal Private Secretary to the Prime Minister)

2:00 pm
Dr Ben Warner (Former Special Adviser at No. 10) (Former Special Adviser at No. 10)

I think in particular Ben Warner will be interesting. Dominic Cummings brought Ben in as a Special Adviser.
It'll be interesting if they are still best friends or if hevwill turn on him.

Thanks. I am at work tomorrow so will catch up when I can?

Has anyone listened to the BBC sounds on the inquiry with Lk? May listen later.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 05/11/2023 14:32

PerkingFaintly · 04/11/2023 13:29

Sadly, I find all that ludicrous, complacent "world-beating" guff entirely predictable. Johnson & co have been enacting the third generation of "clogs to clogs in three generations."

First generation does the clever stuff and puts the work in, gets the business started and builds it up.

Second generation inherits wealth and a functioning business, but also remembers the period before the wealth, and saw the work, judgment and input it took to create that wealth.

Third generation inherits the wealth and hasn't the first idea where the money came from or what went into acquiring it. Members suffer from an impenetrable superiority complex and imagine that their family is rich because of some innate virtue of being cleverer and better than others. They haven't a scooby how to run the business or of the need to put the hours in, and they treat the business like a cash cow and destroy it with repeated insane ideas.

The UK is in it's third generation, so to speak. Cameron & Osborne (more inherited wealth), were the first that stood out to me. Johnson, Cummings and their mob of elite little boys are more of the same – but on overdrive.

I've been down about this for a long time. There's much I disapprove of Blair for, but New Labour squared the circle by getting the UK to reinvent itself as a modern, post-imperial country, settling in to a new relationship with the world but still punching above its weight.

The Cameron/Osborne/Johnson/Cummings types have thrown it all away.

Farage and the other nostalgia-mongers lured people with a promise of Forward To The Past - when that past no longer exists because the UK is no longer HQ of the largest empire the world has ever seen.

So to me, Johnson's behaviour is completely consistent with the bigger picture. He's personally a narcissist, sure, so will always imagine himself individually to be superior. But he and his idiots are symptomatic of a larger problem.

This is spot on.
I’m consistently astonished that so many people can’t see how much the likes of BJ, Cummings, Farage, Mogg and Osborne despise ordinary people too. It’s that third gen mentality. They don’t express it as “we’re superior because we just are”, they express it indirectly in a kind of reverse way: “if you work hard you succeed and get wealthy” i.e. ”all of those poor people out there would be successful and rich if they worked harder”. They really don’t believe how hard ordinary people work to earn even the most modest wage, and they really do believe that they themselves work hard.

DuncinToffee · 06/11/2023 10:39

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1721448396286750982?s=20

Sam Coates - We found an incredible thing buried in one of the documents... that they actually ran out of ventilators, & they didn't make it public..

Borageandchips · 06/11/2023 11:00

PerkingFaintly · 04/11/2023 13:29

Sadly, I find all that ludicrous, complacent "world-beating" guff entirely predictable. Johnson & co have been enacting the third generation of "clogs to clogs in three generations."

First generation does the clever stuff and puts the work in, gets the business started and builds it up.

Second generation inherits wealth and a functioning business, but also remembers the period before the wealth, and saw the work, judgment and input it took to create that wealth.

Third generation inherits the wealth and hasn't the first idea where the money came from or what went into acquiring it. Members suffer from an impenetrable superiority complex and imagine that their family is rich because of some innate virtue of being cleverer and better than others. They haven't a scooby how to run the business or of the need to put the hours in, and they treat the business like a cash cow and destroy it with repeated insane ideas.

The UK is in it's third generation, so to speak. Cameron & Osborne (more inherited wealth), were the first that stood out to me. Johnson, Cummings and their mob of elite little boys are more of the same – but on overdrive.

I've been down about this for a long time. There's much I disapprove of Blair for, but New Labour squared the circle by getting the UK to reinvent itself as a modern, post-imperial country, settling in to a new relationship with the world but still punching above its weight.

The Cameron/Osborne/Johnson/Cummings types have thrown it all away.

Farage and the other nostalgia-mongers lured people with a promise of Forward To The Past - when that past no longer exists because the UK is no longer HQ of the largest empire the world has ever seen.

So to me, Johnson's behaviour is completely consistent with the bigger picture. He's personally a narcissist, sure, so will always imagine himself individually to be superior. But he and his idiots are symptomatic of a larger problem.

Well said. Spot on.

All this willy waving “we are the champions” stuff is moronic.

Yes the UK did incredibly well to be the first to produce vaccines, but after that, no one mentioned the fact that UK distribution fell below that of most EU countries.

You just can’t willy wave convincingly from a country where national health, school infrastructure, social care, public transport and the delivery of clean water are all well below par.

minou123 · 06/11/2023 11:09

DuncinToffee · 06/11/2023 10:39

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1721448396286750982?s=20

Sam Coates - We found an incredible thing buried in one of the documents... that they actually ran out of ventilators, & they didn't make it public..

That's incredible.

I was aware, in a weird way, about ventilators.
I'm a huge James O'Brien LBC fan, l listen to his show.

In 2020, he had a phone in and a uK company which manufactured and sold ventilators called in.
They explained they manufactured ventilators in the UK, but sold and exported them to the EU.
The company contacted the government, saying they could take on more staff and increase production for the NHS so put in a bid for a contract.
They were rejected.

The phone in was because some Tory mate had won the contract but never produced any ventilators.
Yet, here was a UK company who specialised in ventilators, could manufacture them and get them quickly to the NHS, but were rejected.

Craziness

I'll see if I can find it.

I'm hoping this all comes out in Module 5 when they discuss procurement.

DuncinToffee · 06/11/2023 11:41

Yet, here was a UK company who specialised in ventilators, could manufacture them and get them quickly to the NHS, but were rejected.

This seems a recurring theme.

minou123 · 06/11/2023 11:44

If anyone is interested in Economics this mornings witness is from the Treasury office and it is interesting.

But, big news, we have a new KC, completely missed her name, but she is good at asking questions about quite a complicated area.

DuncinToffee · 06/11/2023 11:49

Joanne Cecil according the offical account.

I can't follow it live, have to catch up later

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