Dominic Cummings Covid evidence

[Newtonianmechanics]

Is anyone going to watch this man give evidence today?

Apparently there is a vigil in Barnard Castle ahead of this.

The shopping trolleys emoji seems to mean they think Carrie was controlling Boris from the last few days. Wonder if this will feature.

Well I hope I am wrong but I will not be very surprised if no accountability results, some of the protagonists are promoted, and the final recommendations gather dust in the Department of Health, ready to be picked up at short notice by the next reactive government. Scrutiny is one thing, accountability to me means actual change. One without the other is performance politics.

what the hell you are on about

I have no idea why you and others are struggling so much.

I’ve posted a few main statements

I want the risk v damage assessed and that involves hearing about the damage - this will be at the inquiry

I agree with the main proposals STC put forward, hopefully at the inquiry and acted on

I would have preferred the damage and proposals to have been recognised at the time to limit damage but public fear and approach limited ability to take it on board

Second best is to implement before the next pandemic

I think Sweden did have an approach that was better for women and children yes. And if we take learnings from that in any way then great.

For the moment though I’ll take two tops things

recognise damage - the full extent and consider against risk
implement STC recommendations

I think I understand your point about the length of time it is taking the UK to do our Inquiry. Whereas the likes of Sewden have already completed theirs.

For me, just my opinion, I think taking the time to go through evidence and spending a lot of time on this inquiry is crucial.

For example Module 2 has spent a huge amount of time looking at evidence about the toxic culture in government.

"Fuck pigs", "cunts" whatsapps makes great clickbait headlines for the press.
But taking that out of the picture, hearing about the appalling culture, behaviours and poor working relationships is important to give a context to understand why decisions were made, they way they were.

We've seen a little bit of that already.
Decisions about 1st lockdown were made very quickly, without considering vulnerable groups.
We've heard witnesses explain that due to the horrific toxic culture, anyone (especially women) who wanted to question/debate/consider vulnerable groups, were talked over, talked down, not listened to.

The disrespect between everyone, resulted in wrong or poor decisions being made.

Unfortunately I think we will see more of thus.

I hope I'm making sense 😁

Whilst Cummings swearing made headlines, MacNamara's evidence was far more damaging

The main thing I don't understand is why you don't see the obvious - as stated by charities like STC - that it was the government who didn't listen, it was not the public.

The majority of parents wanted their kids in school.The government did the opposite of what parents wanted.

Yet you blame parents.

Sweden's inquiry - as discussed above - has concluded they should have restricted more especially in early stages. But their schools stayed open, as most UK parents wished.

The Conservative government chose to close schools. They did it. Them. Not parents.

There will be electoral accountability at least.

The majority of parents wanted their kids in school.

Are you saying you wanted the schools open the entire pandemic and the majority of parents agreed?

Yes it makes sense to scrutinise @minou123 and @MidnightOnceMore and at one time I would have been more enthused and scrutiny itself is an important aspect of public law. But so weary of the UK and it's emphasis on process after the fact. Yes do it properly of course, but actual delivery for people is also key. If it does not happen (Hilsborough is a great example) the UK is making a performance. I think Adam Curtis called it "oh dearism". Oh dear, public services are knackered, but we can't change it. I hope very much and know we can.

Many people were taking their children out of school the week before schools were closed.

Some restrictions/measures were put in place in Swedish schools especially for older students, schools weren’t necessarily open as usual. Also I think they utilised outdoors much more. They don’t have so many pupils crammed into old, badly ventilated classrooms

I completely agree with you.

I think, I like you, have seen many inquiries and you do get a weariness about them because it seems nothing really changes.
I really hope this time, it does.

I like the "oh dearism", I may steal that.

In the interests of factual accuracy I would like to point out that schools did stay open throughout the pandemic, including often during the holidays, supporting families who were being neglected by the government.

If the government had taken charge rather than panicking and causing people to panic would parents have reacted the same?

Rephrased for the usual in pp

@MidnightOnceMore

Are you saying you wanted schools open for the entire pandemic for all children?

And the majority of parents agreed?

Inquiries are very "yes Minister".

"The situation is terrible we must be seen to be doing something"
"Lets have an inquiry"
"That's a good idea, by the time it reports everyone will have forgotten why there was an inquiry, or we will have moved into well paying jobs in business".

Sweden's care home policy has caused just as much anguish and hand wringing at their inquiry as ours did. Sweden is not the magic bullet.

Do you mean during the UK pandemic as run by Johnson, or if we'd had a better run pandemic?

Your statements are very simplistic. I wanted the whole pandemic handled differently.

Schools should be open as much as they can be. If they have to shut, there should be a lot more support for vulnerable children. As Save The Children say.

It was your statement on what the majority of parents wanted.

The majority of parents wanted their kids in school

It was a bold claim, so I asked you to clarify.

Your answer isn’t very clear

I prefer schools to be classed as essential infrastructure and and closure ‘considered only as a last resort’ - as per STC recommendations

In order for that to have happened we would have needed a government that spent January and February 2020 making robust contingency plans that were then clearly communicated with the public. It would have needed the government to have introduced some restrictions much sooner.

I trust you will agree with me that sadly we did not have a competent government at the time so it did not happen.

@jgw I personally would have looked at doing maybe 1 week on and 1 week off for kids on rotation - half the usual numbers at all times.

Yes, the majority of parents would have wished schools were open.

I can't remember a single parent saying 'I want pubs open before schools'.

What is in the Save The Children report is absolutely basic, you present it as if it were revolutionary.

You seem to have created an imaginary group of parents who you oppose in your own mind.

The STC recommendations would have been great before fear gripped the public, I didn’t agree with the fear based harsh restrictions approach taken anyway so that’s not a new position.

As I recall them being proposed mid pandemic and the kick back was too big - the essential infrastructure was in any case.

I’m happy to see that now Covid messaging has dialled back you’re all saying yes. It shows how much the Covid messaging had on the demands from people.

A pity it wasn’t implemented at the time, even during rather than the start, as damage to women and children could have been reduced

The government blocked that.

How do you know what anyone here wanted at the time?

I’m happy to see that now Covid messaging has dialled back you’re all saying yes. It shows how much the Covid messaging had on the demands from people.

Who on earth do you mean by 'you're all'?

I can't tell if you are deliberately trying to offend or just don't understand that different people think different things?

Your posts are very rude and keep attributing made up thoughts to people on this thread.

You seem to have your phone on sneer lock. Can you adjust settings, it’s pointless having a go at someone who suggested stuff at the time which is now in a report years later.

I’m not going to feel bad for recognising the structural gaps when I did.

Even if you’re struggling to respond in a way that doesn’t belie your confusion.

Ditto you need to dial back the rudeness

I have no idea why you’re getting so worked up.