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Dominic Cummings Covid evidence

996 replies

Newtonianmechanics · 31/10/2023 09:17

Is anyone going to watch this man give evidence today?

Apparently there is a vigil in Barnard Castle ahead of this.

The shopping trolleys emoji seems to mean they think Carrie was controlling Boris from the last few days. Wonder if this will feature.

OP posts:
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EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:34

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:32

Given the inquiry has heard that the Prime Minister would hold the view of whoever spoke to him last, unless the Minister for Children was the last person to speak to the Prime Minister before he made a decision, having someone like Gavin Williamson or Matt Hancock in that position would have made exactly no difference.

The problem, which you seem very keen to avoid was in the personality of the Prime Minister and those he chose to surround himself with.

This is for the next pandemic. I know your feelings on Johnson and keeping him central, but no I doubt he’ll be a factor.

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:41

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:34

This is for the next pandemic. I know your feelings on Johnson and keeping him central, but no I doubt he’ll be a factor.

So we don't need to consider steps to ensure the needs of women and children are considered because the Prime Minister in the next pandemic will not be as hopeless as Boris was.

The entertaining this is of course we have been told for some time that we should vote Boris, and then Rishi, because they know what a woman is.

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:44

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:41

So we don't need to consider steps to ensure the needs of women and children are considered because the Prime Minister in the next pandemic will not be as hopeless as Boris was.

The entertaining this is of course we have been told for some time that we should vote Boris, and then Rishi, because they know what a woman is.

You are really going for it here aren’t you, it doesn’t make much sense though.

No still needed. If your claim unions and this cabinet member were aligned you’d be happy to have it.

The reason you’ve spent this long arguing against something Save the Children recommended is because it’s not aligned with unions, or your personal wants.

If the inquiry delivers if it will be worth it in the end.

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:50

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:44

You are really going for it here aren’t you, it doesn’t make much sense though.

No still needed. If your claim unions and this cabinet member were aligned you’d be happy to have it.

The reason you’ve spent this long arguing against something Save the Children recommended is because it’s not aligned with unions, or your personal wants.

If the inquiry delivers if it will be worth it in the end.

Edited

In order to establish that having a Minister for Children and Young People in the cabinet would have made any difference in the pandemic I think you need to be clear that other Cabinet Ministers, perhaps starting with Health and Education were doing a good job in their departments and were having the very necessary voice of those departments heard at Cabinet and COBR meetings by the Prime Minister.

It may be that evidence to the inquiry shows that both Williamson and Hancock did an excellent job, were on top of their briefs and were listened to by the Prime Minister...

Crikeyalmighty · 01/11/2023 18:50

It's all very well people saying they feel weary about the preoccupation with this man- I felt pretty bloody weary for years with the right wing faction of the Tory party's obsession with the EU or bing bang bongs for Brexit etc - amazing how people don't like it when he or Brexit or Tory's are no longer flavour of the month

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:51

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:50

In order to establish that having a Minister for Children and Young People in the cabinet would have made any difference in the pandemic I think you need to be clear that other Cabinet Ministers, perhaps starting with Health and Education were doing a good job in their departments and were having the very necessary voice of those departments heard at Cabinet and COBR meetings by the Prime Minister.

It may be that evidence to the inquiry shows that both Williamson and Hancock did an excellent job, were on top of their briefs and were listened to by the Prime Minister...

Can you articulate why having a higher level voice for children in a pandemic worries you?

Saschka · 01/11/2023 18:52

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 17:54

Have you got any explanation as to why the government couldn't simply listen to the advice of experts on the impacts of their policies on children, without the need to appoint a specific representantive?
Are elected MPs not supposed to be aware of all that is occuring in their constituency and look out for the interests of all their constituents?

Were the children’s experts donating millions to the Tory party? Nope? Were they besties with somebody important’s wife, or did they have a side job as a minister’s local publican? Nope?

That’s why that government paid no attention.

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:52

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:51

Can you articulate why having a higher level voice for children in a pandemic worries you?

You show me where I have said that?

I am simply pointing out that given the nature of the Prime Minister duing the pandemic and his utter unsuitablity for the role it would have made exactly no difference.

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:53

Saschka · 01/11/2023 18:52

Were the children’s experts donating millions to the Tory party? Nope? Were they besties with somebody important’s wife, or did they have a side job as a minister’s local publican? Nope?

That’s why that government paid no attention.

Perhaps you can help me understand how having a Cabinet Minister for Children and Young People would have made any difference to that?

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:54

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:52

You show me where I have said that?

I am simply pointing out that given the nature of the Prime Minister duing the pandemic and his utter unsuitablity for the role it would have made exactly no difference.

Good to hear you do want it in place for the next pandemic.

Great, we agree.

Saschka · 01/11/2023 18:54

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:53

Perhaps you can help me understand how having a Cabinet Minister for Children and Young People would have made any difference to that?

I don’t think it would? Are you mixing me up with another poster?

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:55

Saschka · 01/11/2023 18:54

I don’t think it would? Are you mixing me up with another poster?

Not mixing you up, just thought you might be able to understand what I am missing.

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:57

It’s interesting how much people don’t want something, it must be that it might actually change the outcome

I’d say they fear their own voices would be limited as in opposition to children’s needs

@jgw1 for example is pushing back pretty hard. And pro union. I can see why given the job

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:57

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:54

Good to hear you do want it in place for the next pandemic.

Great, we agree.

There was in 2020 a Minister for Children in the Education Department. Presumably because she was a woman she was ignored? Or perhaps because she was only appointed in the Feb 2020 reshuffle (who reshuffles at the start of a major crisis?) she had no idea of the brief?

Anyway, the far more important change that we will see next year is we will at last have a competent government. The titles of the Ministers at that point will be far less important than the fact that they care about the country and its people.

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:59

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 18:57

It’s interesting how much people don’t want something, it must be that it might actually change the outcome

I’d say they fear their own voices would be limited as in opposition to children’s needs

@jgw1 for example is pushing back pretty hard. And pro union. I can see why given the job

Please could you show me where I said I don't think there should be a Cabinet Minister for Children?

What is my job?

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 19:01

jgw1 · 01/11/2023 18:57

There was in 2020 a Minister for Children in the Education Department. Presumably because she was a woman she was ignored? Or perhaps because she was only appointed in the Feb 2020 reshuffle (who reshuffles at the start of a major crisis?) she had no idea of the brief?

Anyway, the far more important change that we will see next year is we will at last have a competent government. The titles of the Ministers at that point will be far less important than the fact that they care about the country and its people.

Luckily the person who wrote the Save the Children report is more likely to give evidence than you at the inquiry

I’ll go with them. Do you think they know what they’re talking about?

Or more self belief than that.

Not unusual I know, I shouldn’t be surprised you’re putting in the hard push against.

Children will be pleased you’re on their side.

DuncinToffee · 01/11/2023 19:05

The government had be shamed in to u-turning on free school meals,

bombastix · 01/11/2023 19:06

A fish rots from the head. If your leader is rotten, then you can expect rotten results.

Johnson was a campaigner, not a leader. Anyone can bang a drum for an idea but a national emergency is when you will be tested, making decisions, and if you can't decide, it will show.

Johnson insists he is a statesman; but he's the end of the pier act. Others who can make decisions and lead are taking over.

He was a weak man, and a weak prime minister. Cummings may have little grace, but his insight is right.

derxa · 01/11/2023 19:08

bombastix · 01/11/2023 19:06

A fish rots from the head. If your leader is rotten, then you can expect rotten results.

Johnson was a campaigner, not a leader. Anyone can bang a drum for an idea but a national emergency is when you will be tested, making decisions, and if you can't decide, it will show.

Johnson insists he is a statesman; but he's the end of the pier act. Others who can make decisions and lead are taking over.

He was a weak man, and a weak prime minister. Cummings may have little grace, but his insight is right.

Sadly I agree with every word.

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 19:09

I’d still prefer it over the alternatives. Harmful measures with little benefit.

Or worse the other leader they beat.

DuncinToffee · 01/11/2023 19:15

The governernment's School catch-up tsar, Kevin Collins, resigned after he only got £1.4bn instead of the £15bn needed

This government really cares about state school kids

I like the Save the Kids proposals, just can't see the government providing proper funding going by their track rrecord

Piggywaspushed · 01/11/2023 19:22

And pro union. I can see why given the job

Maybe drop the barbs.

You will have noted that the enquiry also said unions largely wanted masks in schools to keep students and teachers in school , safely (and also HEPA filters : still not a thing). The government made up lies about this, constructed ridiculous rules about where masks could be worn in schools, and the enquiry has shown it was simply because they did not want to concede anything a union said was valid and correct.

The government's stance is utterly anti union - thereby failing to protect a largely female workforce and pretty much sealing in a continued cycle of illness and poor attendance in staff and pupils.

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 19:26

Unions do not represent children they represent their members. Obviously

No one has to worry if they’re convinced a pro children cabinet member is completely aligned with unions as stated in pp

Of course they may not be, but that’s not a reason to down play the voice of children.

It’s not like Save the Children is some scary anti-union organisation. They want the best for their age group. I agree with them.

BIossomtoes · 01/11/2023 20:15

Crikeyalmighty · 01/11/2023 18:50

It's all very well people saying they feel weary about the preoccupation with this man- I felt pretty bloody weary for years with the right wing faction of the Tory party's obsession with the EU or bing bang bongs for Brexit etc - amazing how people don't like it when he or Brexit or Tory's are no longer flavour of the month

👏🏻👏🏻

Crikeyalmighty · 01/11/2023 20:17

@BIossomtoes thank you. I'm at James o Broens book tour shoe tonight - very great reception!