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Original poster

Anyone following the story of the fire and almost immediate demolition of 'Britain's wonkiest pub'?

202 replies

SirChenjins · 10/08/2023 11:57

It's looking a bit suspicious to say the least! Such a shame to see a lovely old building reduced to a pile of bricks.

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DysonSpheres · 13/08/2023 13:07

Russooooo · 13/08/2023 12:54

You have to withdraw cash from somewhere
Not if you don’t keep all of your money in the bank, or run all of your business transactions through your accountant…

Sadly you're right.

But something has to be done. Allowing this to go unpunished gives a very bad message. That pub cannot be rebuilt (at least I don't see how) You would never be able to recreate the exact features of subsidence that made it so unique.

It's a crime against our national heritage.

ajandjjmum · 13/08/2023 14:24

I totally agree they should be punished, but I'm not sure what for.

They owned the property which was burnt down. If they don't make an insurance claim, the only fault to be 'pinned' on them is that they demolished the whole building before being given permission.

I think the way that this has captured the public's imagination worldwide will be a total shock to those involved.

user1477391263 · 13/08/2023 16:28

Wouldn't it be actually quite sensible to develop the land into housing, rather than rebuild a pub that was failing to attact enough drinkers?

Original poster
SirChenjins · 13/08/2023 16:56

user1477391263 · 13/08/2023 16:28

Wouldn't it be actually quite sensible to develop the land into housing, rather than rebuild a pub that was failing to attact enough drinkers?

The pub was attracting punters.

However, what would have been sensible would have been to apply for the correct planning permission if they had wanted to develop it for housing (they hadn’t and they didn’t).

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PriamFarrl · 13/08/2023 17:01

user1477391263 · 13/08/2023 16:28

Wouldn't it be actually quite sensible to develop the land into housing, rather than rebuild a pub that was failing to attact enough drinkers?

It’s no good for housing though.

Ifeelsuchflutterings · 13/08/2023 17:04

user1477391263 · 13/08/2023 16:28

Wouldn't it be actually quite sensible to develop the land into housing, rather than rebuild a pub that was failing to attact enough drinkers?

Given the pub was wonky because of being built on old mines I'm not sure housing would be the best use for the land

Original poster
SirChenjins · 13/08/2023 17:45

That’s very true.

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user1477391263 · 13/08/2023 17:46

Fair enough.

BoobyDazzler · 13/08/2023 17:54

Ifeelsuchflutterings · 13/08/2023 17:04

Given the pub was wonky because of being built on old mines I'm not sure housing would be the best use for the land

Show quote history

It’s also sandwiched between a landfill site and a sewage works. Hardly prime building land.

This was done so the new owner could expand his landfill.

Original poster
SirChenjins · 13/08/2023 17:56

I hope the council refuse all further development on this site - that would really piss the owners off.

What I actually really hope is that both of them do jail time - they belong there for what they’ve done here and elsewhere.

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Hmmph · 14/08/2023 09:31

Planning permission and enforcement in this country is laughable.

Developers have pre application meetings and sort out a deal with the council before the public is even made aware. Councils are "bribed" with money for local amenities etc in exchange for planning permission.

Planning that is turned down goes to appeal to the Secretary of State who overrides the local council.

Neighbours are allowed any old extension into their garden no matter the effect on neighbours so long as the 'street scene' is ok.

You can build whatever you like and get retrospective planning permission for it because enforcement isn't deemed worth it.

If you bulldoze your site before applying for planning permission, the council can't see the habit and mature trees that were there before so can't object on those grounds.

And, if your building 'accidentally' burns down, you can build on the site with no consequences.

People get away with it all the time. It's awful and makes this country horrible to live in. Planning permission needs to be a thousand times stricter.

ajandjjmum · 14/08/2023 10:37

You're absolutely right @Hmmph . I just hope that the local planners will behave with massive caution as they know the eyes of the world will be upon them. Literally.

DysonSpheres · 14/08/2023 11:14

Hmmph · 14/08/2023 09:31

Planning permission and enforcement in this country is laughable.

Developers have pre application meetings and sort out a deal with the council before the public is even made aware. Councils are "bribed" with money for local amenities etc in exchange for planning permission.

Planning that is turned down goes to appeal to the Secretary of State who overrides the local council.

Neighbours are allowed any old extension into their garden no matter the effect on neighbours so long as the 'street scene' is ok.

You can build whatever you like and get retrospective planning permission for it because enforcement isn't deemed worth it.

If you bulldoze your site before applying for planning permission, the council can't see the habit and mature trees that were there before so can't object on those grounds.

And, if your building 'accidentally' burns down, you can build on the site with no consequences.

People get away with it all the time. It's awful and makes this country horrible to live in. Planning permission needs to be a thousand times stricter.

Agreed. The entire property scene seems like a huge cartel to me. And I'm talking about every aspect of it, from sky high house prices and rent to commercial building and planning practices.

The entire bloody economy runs on property and it is a reflection of how broken the current capitalist system is. I'm all for capitalism as the best of a nasty set of choices, but it needs restructuring.

When the local community has no say or power over something as nostalgic and culturally important as this, it leaves a feeling of disempowerment and a nasty taste of corruption in the mouth and amongst the community and the truth is, if you follow the trail it leads back to regional and central government and some hand shaking under the table.

There needs to be justice at the lower level or eventually the backlash is disengagement, disaffection, apathy and a lack of faith in political leadership and the judicial system.

Original poster
SirChenjins · 14/08/2023 12:51

Absolutely agree @Hmmph I was a community councillor (Scottish equivalent of parish councillor) for about 20 years and resigned in the end because of yet another dodgy deal with a developer. The council would refuse planning applications time and time again, only for the developers to refer it to the planning Minister who would simply wave them through. They all know each other and they all support each other. Once the Minister approves the application then the Council look the other way because they simple don’t have the resources to pursue the developers through the courts - breach after breach of planning law and planning conditions ignored. Or, the council planning committee overrules the planning dept and it gets through that way with a huge backhander. It’s a murky old business that is criminal on many occasions.

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Original poster
SirChenjins · 17/08/2023 08:07

Good to see this isn’t going away - and hopefully there’s a whole load more going on behind the scenes with the authorities that isn’t being reported. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66527229

The Crooked House on fire

MP pledges to push for Crooked House law

Marco Longhi wants to see better protection for heritage buildings after crooked pub's demolition.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66527229

OP posts:
EmmaGrundyForPM · 17/08/2023 08:16

it's on BBC breakfast news right now

Original poster
SirChenjins · 17/08/2023 08:23

Brilliant! Were there any further updates?

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DysonSpheres · 17/08/2023 08:53

I don't have a TV or a licence. Was the BBC morning segment good? I'm glad they have shone further light on it.

Pressure needs to be kept up. I'm a Londoner and I'd never yet had the opportunity to visit the Pub. But now I won't ever have the opportunity and it's a national crime against our heritage. I think hitherto it's been reported as if it's a regional thing. No, it's not.

Midnightafternoons · 17/08/2023 09:19

"Crooked House: Statement (August 16th)
Leader of South Staffordshire Council, Cllr Roger Lees, said: “As part of our ongoing processes, South Staffordshire Council has made a Tree Protection Order on the land surrounding the former Crooked House site to protect the nearby woodland."

This will hopefully be a barrier to the new owners to extending their landfill.

There was a meeting held at Himley Hall last night with local MPs and members of the local community who booked a place.

From the 'Save the Crooked House' Facebook group (over 19,000 members now), it seems that there is a determination from local MPs and the local authority to rebuild the pub, but at the meeting it was acknowledged that it if it is to be achieved, it will take a long time.

Original poster
SirChenjins · 17/08/2023 09:30

That’s great there are plans to push for a rebuild - I presume that while the plans for this go through the system, slow as it will be, there’s nothing the gruesome twosome can do in terms of developing the site?

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Midnightafternoons · 17/08/2023 09:50

Hopefully not. There has been talk on the Facebook group about protecting the remains/foundations somehow, maybe listing the site itself, but I'm not sure if this is possible or where they got to with this.

The new owners have had to fence off the site of the pub due to 'health and safety reasons', so there is concern now that with people unable to get down to the rubble that it will be removed and any original materials needed for the rebuild will be lost.

Midnightafternoons · 17/08/2023 09:57

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/14/crooked-house-pub-rebuild-hopes-historic-england/

Article about potentially listing the site of the pub and a potential rebuild. It appears as though applications and recommendations have been made but the final decision now lies with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.

Hopes revived for reconstruction of Britain’s wonkiest pub

Following a fire at the Crooked House in Himley, near Dudley in the West Midlands, the building was demolished

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/14/crooked-house-pub-rebuild-hopes-historic-england

DysonSpheres · 17/08/2023 09:58

Midnightafternoons · 17/08/2023 09:50

Hopefully not. There has been talk on the Facebook group about protecting the remains/foundations somehow, maybe listing the site itself, but I'm not sure if this is possible or where they got to with this.

The new owners have had to fence off the site of the pub due to 'health and safety reasons', so there is concern now that with people unable to get down to the rubble that it will be removed and any original materials needed for the rebuild will be lost.

I guess technically it's their property and they can remove the bricks and remove the foundations if they want.🤬

The foundations must not be touched if a faithful rebuild is ever to be achieved.

Original poster
SirChenjins · 17/08/2023 10:34

Would they really that while this is going on?

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PriamFarrl · 17/08/2023 10:39

SirChenjins · 17/08/2023 10:34

Would they really that while this is going on?

They are clearly have no morals or shame, so perhaps they would.

How did they find each other? Is there a dating site for the morally corrupt?