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Original poster

Arse: according to Ken LIvingstone my car is so unGreen I'll have to pay £25 congestion charge

241 replies

TheDullWitch · 13/02/2008 21:12

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm

It's only a blardy Volvo estate, not a 4X4 and actually I'm Mrs Public Transport and must have only driven it into the congestion zone 3 times since charges started.(And we re getting rid of it anyway in two months.)

But that ruling will just lead to lots of richer families buying a second, runabout car which doesn t have to pay the charge. Which is hardly Green. Whilst lots of poorer families will never be able to use the one big family car they need.

OP posts:
needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 13:58

Does it matter whether one likes Ken or not. Getting cars off the roads is a fine idea and the only way you are going to do it is by hitting them in the pocket. Londoners have a fantastic public transport system. They should try living in other cities to appreciate how great their own is.
Least ken is attempting to get peopple out of cars and the bus syetm has improved hugely. Only selfish people drive in London or rich buggers who don't give a crap.
But any move that makes drivers have to get out of their cars always bring outrage. you'd think they were surgically attatched! If you are able-bodied you don't need a 2 ton wheelchair to get you about. Shameful.

idlingabout · 15/02/2008 14:49

Absolutely 'nmc'. People won't leave their cars unless you make them - they are too welded to the car driven economy we have lumbered ourselves with. Not all their fault - employers to blame too. The long hours culture couldn't work if people didn't have cars.
Those in London who think the public transport isn't good enough should try living out here. Our nearest town is only 4 miles away but the bus would take an hour. There are only 2 buses a day - if I wanted to use the bus I would have only 20 minutes in town before I would need to get the bus back home in time to collect dd from school. Now that is what I call poor public transport.

foxinsocks · 15/02/2008 16:31

bloody hell - you lot have got chips on your shoulders!

'only selfish people drive in London or rich buggers who don't give a crap'

err no. What a narrow minded point of view. DO you actually LIVE in London?

Thank god we live in a democracy and if you WANT to drive in London you still can.

and lolol at the bus system improving hugely. It's not improved ONE BIT our side of London. In fact, they just cut a service here because, well, because they can.

Saying Londoners don't know they are born wrt public transport is not an argument. I don't live anywhere else because I don't want to. And if you think it's so fantastic here, you try commuting every day and then see what it's like.

Public transport is great when it works but it quite often doesn't. And if people want to drive, then so be it. You still have to park and that's the bigger problem tbh. Whether people drive or not has nothing to do with them being selfish. It's a CHOICE.

needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 16:51

I did live in London yes. Used to commute across London every single day.
And in a democracy we have the right to say we don't want to breathe your fumes. Why should drivers inflict them on us? Its anti-social. Or the car noise.
By driving, people are depriving my kids of the choice to not breathe fumes. And it really isn't necassary.

foxinsocks · 15/02/2008 16:58

Planes cause far more pollution and no-one does anything to cut down flights. Trying to stop people driving is a losing battle - you will never find anywhere in England where no-one drives. It's as much my human right to drive as it is yours to walk the pavement. Some of the muck the buses spew out is just foul.

And it is necessary. Public transport doesn't operate through the night. How are you supposed to get to/back from work then? Or if you are on call? Not driving just isn't an option for everyone.

It may work for you and that's great. But it just isn't feasible for everyone.

hifi · 15/02/2008 17:02

totally agree with you fis, people target big cars because its easy to say they havent got one, wouldnt want one and hate the people who do.like to see the same ones cutting out their two weeks in benidorm each year, it wouldnt happen.
lets stop everyone doing anything thats antisocial shall we?

foxinsocks · 15/02/2008 17:07

I don't have any feeling for those that drive big f-off cars in cities, because personally I think they're a bit unnecessary, but that's because I was nearly killed when one of them hit me on my bike gggrrrr

cazzybabs · 15/02/2008 17:12

I think they need to make public transport far cheaper...not just in London but everywhere. They are talkign about bringing in a congestion charge in Cambridge where I live, but buses are so expensive and I cannot bike with a new baby. I think the govement should re-nationalise all public transport and all fares should be 50p.

idlingabout · 15/02/2008 17:22

'fis' - ''Saying Londoners don't know they are born wrt public transport is not an argument. I don't live anywhere else because I don't want to. And if you think it's so fantastic here, you try commuting every day and then see what it's like.''
If that was aimed at me for my last post , I would like to point out that I have lived in London and did commute daily (on public transport). Yes, it wasn't perfect and yes,there were delays but you just made sure you left yourself enough 'buffer' time. I often worked very late and frequently worked at week-ends so saw what was on offer from all angles as it were. It would never have crossed my mind to drive though.
I would like not to have to drive for every journey now but sadly the lack of public transport in rural areas means I have to.

needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 17:25

why is it assumed that those who dislike cars fly off to Benidorm? I never fly because I don't think its ethical. A lot of people have made the pledge not to fly.
And this week I did get a car. From motability. I've struggled for years as a disabled person with a severely disabled child but this week I got the smallest wheelchair accessible vehicle i could find. It has a 1.2 engine. It will only be used for dd2 aand her appointments and we'll go by bus if we can (this city has hardly any wheelchair accessible buses).
But I feel hideously guilty.
We will be exempt from any congestion charge hwoever cos disabled people are considered to need a car. Even then I'd never drive in london. The buses are too wonderful to want the stress of driving. Snd the bus drivers actually move non-disabled people out of the wheelchair space. How fab is that?!

hifi · 15/02/2008 17:30

nmc, thats your choice, i woudnt say lots of people choose not to fly, those who choose not to probably havent or couldnt fly that often anyway.

needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 17:33

err, what does that mean? Only poor people choose not to fly?

nancy75 · 15/02/2008 17:33

the buses are too wonderful to want the stres of driving!?!? are you talking about another place called london that i have never been to? The buses are dirty, unreliable, overpriced, overcrowded and on bus routes in the area that i live they are also deemed to be quite dangerous at certain times of day

nancy75 · 15/02/2008 17:35

the bus i sat on for 55 mins going nowhere the other night after there was a huge fight on it was particularly wonderful!

alfiesbabe · 15/02/2008 17:37

'i woudnt say lots of people choose not to fly, those who choose not to probably havent or couldnt fly that often anyway. '

  • pissed myself at this comment. Evidence?? I agree with nmc - it just seems to be saying 'poor people wouldnt fly anywhere so they're not making a real choice about it'. Unbelievable.
hifi · 15/02/2008 17:38

obviously if they cant afford it they arnt going to, nothing about being poor, although if i were poor it wouldnt be a priority of mine.

needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 17:40

I imagine the pro-choice people here would be a tad irate if I exercised a right to smoke next to their kids right? If a activity or habit impact on others quality of life and health then I don't think they have a right to do it. Its about social responsibility.
If driving didn't affect air quality or kill people then drive away. But it does so serious debate isneeded about choices. Your choice to drive affcets my health and my kids health.

alfiesbabe · 15/02/2008 17:41

well said nmc

needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 17:53

I can afford to fly but choose not too. Travelling across Europe by train actually costs more.

redadmiral · 15/02/2008 18:13

Don't know why anyone is taking FiS's comments seriously - she's directly contradicted herself in every post

needmorecoffee · 15/02/2008 18:25

Nancy, I've travelled all over London by bus in my wheelchair. Compared to Bristol its a piece of cake.

foxinsocks · 15/02/2008 18:36

lol it's because I was thinking about my stance while I was typing.

I used to be evangelical about public transport. I didn't have a car in this country till I was about 28. But then I had some horrendous experiences on public transport - one of our very good friends got beaten up horribly, someone else a few months ago got racially and physically abused and had to get off the bus because no-one would support her. In the 6 months I've been commuting, I've had someone throw up on my feet and I've had 2 instances of complete loonies trying to accost me and that's all during daylight hours.

I still am quite evangelical about it but we cannot do without the car. Dh finishes work after public transport has stopped - it's not 24 hours a day - there's absolutely no way we could function without a car. I do dislike 4x4s in London because I can't see a need for them - for me, a car is a purely functional thing that gets us from A to B but I DO hate this 'oh no-one in London NEEDS to drive' because it's not correct. Dh could not work without the car.

redadmiral · 15/02/2008 18:48

Full apology and retraction FiS - I actually read your about public transport as a straight comment.
I think to be travelling alone by car is a luxury compared to the sometimes unpleasant situations you can get on public transport. (I don't think they are anything to do with the C charge though) but it is a luxury and will eventually be charged as such.

(I've also had many enjoyable conversations with people on public transport - it can work both ways.)

edam · 15/02/2008 18:53

enjoyable conversations on public transport in London? Were those with tourists? Only my experience (17 years) is that Londoners tend not to talk on public transport...

nancy75 · 15/02/2008 18:55

nmc if thats the case you have been very lucky on london buses and i guess you have been using them during the middle of the day (not rush hour or night time) my experience of london transport is that it is terrible, the millions that ken has made so far with the congestion charge have paid for more buses that is true, but these dont cover all areas of london and in certain areas of london the free under 16 bus travel means that buses are virtual no go zones. I hate to be rude but i also feel abit miffed that people who dont live in london - or anywhere near it feel that they should have such a say on what goes on here, i have no idea what transport in bristol is like because i dont live there, do i have a right to say nobody in bristol should drive a car?