Arse: according to Ken LIvingstone my car is so unGreen I'll have to pay £25 congestion charge

[TheDullWitch]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm

It's only a blardy Volvo estate, not a 4X4 and actually I'm Mrs Public Transport and must have only driven it into the congestion zone 3 times since charges started.(And we re getting rid of it anyway in two months.)

But that ruling will just lead to lots of richer families buying a second, runabout car which doesn t have to pay the charge. Which is hardly Green. Whilst lots of poorer families will never be able to use the one big family car they need.

Katymac only new cars are free because older cars tend to have higher emissions because the technology wasn't there.

There is no VED emissions data for older cars because it was not a requirement and manufacturers are unable to test retrospectively. That is why older cars are taxed (and graded for cc) according to engine size.

Madness to make it free for small, low emission cars. The whole idea of congestion charging was to cut down on the stultifying, city-killing traffic congestion - line after line of stationary traffic. And my car would be free - so I'm not protecting a vested interest here.

Yes microwaveonly - the difference in price should be related to emissions/engine size - you are right. It is lazy shorthand to just say 4x4 when you mean gas-guzzlers.

Is that true Blu? I thought it was to reduce pollution?

Surely by actively encouraging people to buy low emission cars the pollution caused by those drivers will be reduced overall, and not just when they are in the congestion zone?

Making new cars causes pollution too. It's not a good idea to give incentives to buy new cars more often without taking that factor into account.

I assume the point is to try and stop people from driving big 4x4s to work everyday when there's just one person inside. If all the businessmen/women get small cars instead of big flashy ones that will cut emissions a lot.

just because it's small doesn't mean that it doesn't cause congestion. One target, one instrument is basic economic policy.

Someone I worked with used to work with Ken Livingstone. She said that the key to his success was not that he knew a lot, but made sure he got good advisors around him.

As someone who lives in London I'm impressed with the success of the congestion charge so far, in terms of reduced traffic and much improved public transport.

On these results I'm willing to give the next implementation of the scheme the benefit of the doubt.

There will always be people who moan about it, and I find it even more impressive that he forges ahead with such potentially politically unpopular schemes. If only the government dared do the same I'd feel much more optimistic about the world our children will live in.

lets just hope that ken does not win the next mayoral election and we londoners can stop living with his ill thought out, unpopular, moneymaking schemes

Yeah - let's go to hell in a handcart.

I think handcarts probably come under the category that doesn't have to pay the charge, but I dread to think about Hell's carbon footprint

What redadmiral said.

At least Ken's done something to address this. Does anyone have any better ideas?

maybe we could improve congestion by getting kens and his staff on to publis transport - i read a report ages ago that his offices have the highest taxi bills for any gov dept. i wont be voting for boris but at least he rides a bike!

nancy Boris does not have a good green record. Ken does (and I don't like him as a person actually, but at least he stands up for what he believes).

As for moneymaking...taxing is the only punishment the public understand..I don't see many people volunteering to ditch their cars. If it makes money for London, fine, the point is to get people out of their gas guzzling cars.

and of course it is unpopular..with those closed minded selfish peole who cannot see past themselves...which is a lot of us I'm afraid.

does kens good green record extend to pointless flights taken by Ken to countries like cuba?

Think you're mixing up the man and his policies, TBH.

What you seem to be saying is you're not pprepared to do anything about pollution till Ken and everyone else cleans up their act - fraid that's what most other people say - hence the carrot and stick of the congestion charge.

using that site my emmissions are 280, best I steer clear of london!!

Perfect example of it working!!!

(We'd love to see you Tilly - maybe you can come in by bus )

but to be totally honest, I dont drive in london anyhow, but if I ever needed to, I would just pay.

At the end of the day I already pay more for my car to begin with as they are expensive in comparison to 'normal family cars', I pay more tax, servicing etc, diesel costs me more because it uses more so whats another £25 on top of all that.

It's not a congestion charge, it's an environment tax and it's a short-sighted one at that, because, as has already been said on the thread, people will buy older, smaller cars as city runabouts.

As for getting more people onto public transport, the only way you'll physically cram more people on during the rush hour is with a bulldozer. Offering employers (and employees!) incentives to work more flexibly will help with that, but then there are the early mornings when it's impractical to expect staff to be in (plus cleaners, etc need to be in earlier than workers) and in many areas of London there's a safety issue with staff getting public transport late at night.

But Ken - he's a rancid little turd weasel.

There was a thing in one of the free London papers yesterday about the times Ken's changed his mind over this charge. It's already been changed to the C Charge from the Congestion Charge. What's the betting they'll stick a middle stroke across the C and call it the E(nvironment) Charge and everyone will be happy to pay it then, because we're all about the being green these days, aren't we?!

I reckon all cars except those for disabled poeple should be banned. No earthly reason to have a car in London. More buses, more cycling etc.
Least Ken is trying something, rather than the guvmint that spends years hand wringing while the Artic ice melts, the Siberian tundra thaws out and asthma rates go through the roof.

Central London or inside M25?