Inequality in housework: "Mothers are increasingly going out to work, fathers are doing the childcare - it looks like equality, but what about the chores?"

[morningpaper]

Article in this morning's Family Section

I was reading this article this morning about how, even in dual-income households, women are still expected to do most of the chores.

It was interesting and I'm quite sure is true, although the question that I didn't feel it addressed was 'why?' and how we can change this for our children.

I can HONESTLY say that I have never asked DP to 'put a load of washing on' or 'hoover up' - but we are both really anal about housework. I was actually reading in the conservatory this while he was packing the children's bags and supervising the children because he has taken them out for the day so I can get on with some work.

I don't know why his expectations are of housework-equality, except that he did act as 'carer' to his mother as a child a great deal, so the idea of a woman running around after him is not one he has learnt.

I must admit that my first husband was utterly useless and when I left him I left full instructions on how to use the washing machine and a pile of his favourite recipes . I don't know whether I would put up with this now - obviously I like this think not, but if I was married to an incompetent then maybe I would just get on with the bulk of the housework for an easy life.

So, what sets men's expectations that a woman will do the cleaning and housework? And how do we change it for our sons/daughters?

I do think that your DH acting as a "carer" for his mother might be very significant as to why he is different. Because yes, it is definitely true, that women do most of the chores, you only have to read certain sections of mumsnet. Might have more input later.

My DH does his fair share of domestic stuff.

I tend to do more of the cooking and general cleaning; he does more of the laundry (although I do most of the ironing). I am not complaining!

yes, I read that this morning. I don't know really.

Both dh and I now work full time. He takes the kids to school every day and we have a nanny but not a cleaner because there isn't any point at the moment (building work about to be done, house will be a tip...).

We are the polar opposite of you and dh though morningpaper, because both of us loathe housework and only really tidy when the nanny is coming or when we start to feel we are embarrassed by the state of it.

I do clean the kitchen and the bathroom, do virtually all the cooking but dh puts the washing away, sorts out the rubbish and can arrange playdates etc.

What I find interesting is even though dh is at home on a Monday, other mums will still ring me at work to do arrangements, rather than speak to dh which is just ridiculous given that he is right there - as if most women have the impression that the men won't be able to do any organising grrr.

Dh never cleaned, even when he lived on his own. He paid for a cleaner. It's boring, housework and luckily, both of us agree on that point!

What I found interesting about that article is that the men have more valuable time with the children whereas the women end up filling their time doing tasks rather than spending precious time with the kids and I find that happens here quite a bit.

I constantly have to ask dh to help - he is oblivious to mess/chores etc most of the time. When I ask he is absolutely fine about doing them, but he has NO initiative for it.

It is bizarre (I think that it is partly upbringing though, because he NEVER did any chores at home growing up AND mil has always had cleaning ladies, so I think that he must think that houses are self-cleaning.
Yes, blame the mothers .

I have to say though, that with ds I do often just do stuff for him because he is SOOOOO slow when I ask him to help, so I will have to address that if I don't want to be one of THOSE mothers myself.

That article was so interesting. I work part time but the bulk of the chores do fall to me, along with the shopping etc also. DH will go if I give him a list and ask him to go, but he doesn't do a lot on his own intiative.

I find myself in the shower in the mornings mentally planning the evening meal and going through fridge contents to make sure we have everthing. I also cook all of DS's meals from scratch so there is that to think about as well. DH doesn't understand how draining it actually is and how much work goes into the house just to keep it ticking over.

His mum did everything in the house but I think DH suffered as a result of it as hates reading now and has a short attention span and I think its down to him watching too much TV while his mum concentrated on being the perfect housewife

My dh is like yours mp
He does what needs doing, I never have to ask. In fact I would say he does a lot more than me really (and we have a cleaner twice a week so that shows what a lazy slattern I am)

I do more of the cooking but he does do some, if I cook he always clears up and vice versa

We have always had a very equal relationship in every way, we both earn similar amounts, we both look after dd while the other does stuff, we split all bills/mortgage straight down the middle. I guess if I were at home I might do more but no chance of that...

Its true, sadly. I've allocated my dh the ironing now that we both work (together I might add, drives me nuts at work too ) however its sitting in a two week old pile and we're all running out of clothes again, sigh.....I seem to do the rest of the stuff, cooking, cleaning, although he does get up with the kids in the morning (half hour before me), its still me badgering him to get them dressed etc before nursery, sigh.

I have thought about it a lot this weekend when dh has been away on business. I am still quite ill and was not having anyone round, so who was I cleaning the house for, exactly?

The answer is - ME. I want to live in a home that is cleaner and tidier than the one that dh wants to live in. He does not see that work needs to be done at the same point that I do. I am not a houseproud daily vacuumer or anything like that, it is just that our tolerance for mess is different.

A lot of my friends find the same - that their dh would quite happily live with things strewn across chairs etc and coffee cups sitting round the place and not mind.

Don't get me wrong, my dh does a good deal of housework and does do a lot of the cooking/kids baths/bedtimes stuff.

But with many jobs he just wouldn't do it at the same level that I would. If he were doing the laundry, for example, he would let it back up for days till he ran out of stuff, and then we would be chained to the house with the dryer on on all day and spend half a day sorting it out. I think it's quicker and cheaper to put a load in when I get up, and then stick it on an airer and take it down ready for the next load. So I do that - because I want to, not because I am forced to, because it would get done eventually, just not my way (am bit of control freak secretly)

So I don't see anything wrong in just giving things a quick going over because that's the way that I want them to be. If it were my dh coming home from work and telling me the house was untidy, then I would expect him to be the one doing something about it.

I meant this week

he is back now

that is why he is looking after the kids and I am mning

actually looking back on my last post I realise that my dh would not live with stuff strewn about anymore - I am thinking of him 10 years back

and now I am thinking I should not be on this thread at all because he does as much as I do at the moment

All posts duly noted and considered!

But we are still bringing boys up like this... I wonder why? I wonder whether we see neatness and tidiness and a propensity to clean as being 'female' attributes?

DD folds up her uniform at the end of each day and I think 'Ahh that's nice and tidy.' I wonder if she were a boy, part of me might think it was a bit anal and OTT?

When I read the article this morning, I really identified with the points made. I work 4 days a week, and dh still sees himself as helping me out at home. I do have to remind him to do things, although timetabling all the chores makes this less necessary (I do the timetabling of course).

No washing gets done if I don't do it.

I also identified with the point made that men like to be seen as the most active parent.

I have two dds mp and one of them is a fold-up-and-tidy-awayer, one is a slattern

for my part I think neither I nor my dh were taught how to clean or tidy - my mother was a slattern, and dh's mother was a perfectionist who didn't let anyone help

as a result we were both useless when we moved in together - he would leave everything because he was used to it magically occurring, and I would clean and tidy hysterically and pointlessly, with no real idea of what needed doing, because I was so afraid of my house turning into my mother's

so I think for us it was not about inbred sexism but about how we were taught at home

I am to admit it but it was flylady who taught me to get a handle on it, and I am adamant that my children learn a better example. We tidy the playroom together as a family each night, and my dd1 has her room divided into zones to deal with, one for each night of the week (dd2 not really old enough to get the concept)

What really bugs me is the little stuff. DD goes baby swimming and since I went back to work DH has been taking her (under protest). When we get home he leaves the bag with the wet towels and wet costumes in the hall, and that's where they stay.

Every week on Sunday (swimming is Thursday) when I realise the bag is still sat there I fume while I hang out the towels.. He also leaves his shorts inside out with the legs tangled into the net pant bit. I started off pulling them straight but the last 2 weeks I've dried them all scrunched up. He may get the message.

I think there are two mixed issues here: how much house work men do and how much they think needs done.

In other words, I don't think its so much the case that men don't want to vacuum, more that they don't think there is any need to vacuum, or not as often, anyway. And ironing? Let's face it, ironing is pretty damn pointless. No-one dies because of a slightly-less-than-perfectly-smooth sheet.

In fact, it's probably not a men vs women thing but a less-time-in-the-house vs more-time-in-the-house one.

That aside, the bit of the article which really amazed me (us, actually - we were chortling over it earlier) was this: "This is despite the fact that the amount of housework trebles when you become a parent."

Eh? Eh? Eh? One nappy wash every other day, a few extra small clothes in the normal wash and an extra mug and plate at meals - trebles? This sounds suspiciously like a statistic from the Department-of-Figures-Pulled-Out-of-One's-Bum.

give it time Ubergeekian and 2 boys: - 2 lots of football kit, 2 lots of school uniform, 2 lots of swimming kit, 2 lots of bedding, 2 lots of towels, pyjamas. The washing has tripled

its 3 lots in our house!

Fair enough, Iota, but has your total family housework load really tripled? And the article does say "...when you become a parent" and not "... as children grow up".

Yes I think that the housework time as a percentage of "free" time has trebled, AT LEAST!

Most of the mess in the house is caused by children. Do you have a mobile child?!

Ubergeekian - I did say give it time

I do think that Ubergeek is onto something

I am amazed - utterly amazed - by the amount of housework many women on mn do. I have never come across it in rl even among the SAHMs that I know

daily - even thrice daily - vacuuming, daily rounds with bottles of bleach, Big Cleans of the whole house taking all of Saturday, washing the towels after each use, changing the bedlinen twice a week

I do think an element of thinking you need to do a lot of housework has started to creep in, maybe perpetuated by these endless ads suggesting that your guests think your toilet smells and your house is full of germs that need to be constantly kept at bay

I do think that Ubergeek is onto something

I am amazed - utterly amazed - by the amount of housework many women on mn do. I have never come across it in rl even among the SAHMs that I know

daily - even thrice daily - vacuuming, daily rounds with bottles of bleach, Big Cleans of the whole house taking all of Saturday, washing the towels after each use, changing the bedlinen twice a week

I do think an element of thinking you need to do a lot of housework has started to creep in, maybe perpetuated by these endless ads suggesting that your guests think your toilet smells and your house is full of germs that need to be constantly kept at bay

Maybe women feel the need to have a sparkling house to 'prove' as it were that they have been busy at home all day??

I personally feel that there is very much an unspoken opinion from society in general that mums at home don't do much all day but the reality could not be more different!

The only thing with spending an interactive day with your child is that in the short term, you don't see any immediate results, whereas with housework, you do and that, I imagine should 'justify' to x,y,z that yes, something has been done with my day at home iyswim?

Not that I spend all day doing housework btw - was using it as an example. Would rather spend time playing with DS than having a gleaming house!

Well I am single so it's not a DP&me issue but I agree with the thing that some women feel obliged to do too much housework. I have always had a 'male' attitude to mess ie I really don't give a f** if the house is untidy and just try to keep up with enough clean plates and clean pants.
However as I am currently doing battle with a plague of farking mice I am having to do frightening amounts of housework and part of my mouse-anguish is the idea that I will have to keep doing lots of housework to keep the litte furry bastards at bay.