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Original poster

10 million immigrants estimated to flood into UK by whatever year, I dunno...

43 replies

Hecate · 01/02/2008 08:43

So what? The island is pretty secure. It won't sink under the weight of an extra 10 million people. We're not all going to be treading water

Immigrants, immigrants arrgg arrgghh

The issue is not immigrants immigrants arghh help me gerrem off..

It is making sure that the balance remains.

Of course you can't have more people without putting the infrastructure - is that the right word? - in place. So more people need more houses and services - but more people provide more LABOUR to run the extra services and earn money so pay more TAXES to fund the extra services. There are so very many places - brownfield?? available for regeneration, so it's not like we are going to have to build flats over Stonehenge and ruin our beautiful countryside cos of course, a field and a bunch of flowers must be protected while someone sleeps in a cardboard box under a railway bridge. (an argument for another day )

There's just no reason I can see why we can't have many more people come here as long as they are contributing by working. It surely just evens itself out in the end? More people need more houses need more services create more jobs fill more jobs earn more money pay more tax buy more things create more jobs....

OP posts:
Chococat · 01/02/2008 08:50

And of course, there's no mention of how many emigrants they expect by the same year?! It's not as if it's a one-way street!

ivykaty44 · 01/02/2008 08:52

Who else will be paying my pension - thank you very much keep them coming

2shoes · 01/02/2008 08:57

yipee bang go all chances of dh getting a job

FillyjonkisCALM · 01/02/2008 09:00

agree 100% hecate

also agree with chococat that no one ever looks at British EMMIGRATION. Because thats ok, of course...

Immigrants are a bloody good deal for the taxpayer, most of the time. We have not had to pay anything towards their childhood, or towards their education. On average they are better qualified/trained than UK workers.

2shoes · 01/02/2008 09:04

gentle reminder while you all think of your pension. it will have a knock on affect. as people won't be able to get jobes in certain sectors and will have to sign on. which will put more familys on benefits..who pays for that? oh yes the taxpayer.

Original poster
Hecate · 01/02/2008 09:15

Why won't they?

If you have more people, you need more jobs, you need more houses, you need more services, all this is true. But you create the need for more services etc and therefore more jobs because there are more people. If you've got a lot more people in the country you need more shops - so more jobs. You need more nurses - more jobs, you need more teachers - more jobs, you need more everything! - more jobs. More people doing the extra jobs - more tax.

Still don't get the problem.

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 01/02/2008 09:19

With the population getting older they will need to be cared for - there will be plenty of care jobs and those caring will be paying the tax to pay for the pensions of the people they are caring for who will be paying for the wages of the carers who will be paying the tax to fund there own wages.

NotQuiteCockney · 01/02/2008 09:20

As long as they bring their regional cuisines (ok, and as long as they're not all Russian, don't like their food much), wahey! the more the merrier!

(Of course, I'm forn myself, so what do I know?)

Alambil · 01/02/2008 09:21

Yes, you need all those things but government are hell-bent on knocking schools down and shutting hospitals in this area; you can't have more people/houses (built on sites where schools used to be) and not have the BASIC provisions of hospital (within 30 miles) and schools etc etc.

Jobs will be harder to come by as people from abroad seem to take lower wages; my uncle is a long distance lorry driver who can't get work because he won't take the VERY low wages; the Polish people who have replaced him and his team are liking their money.

Some immigrants take benefits (child benefit) and send it back to their family abroad; WHY?? WHY aren't the home country supporting the family?!

We need that money to STAY HERE - there is too much child poverty, too many pensioners having to choose whether to pay for food or heating (that isn't sensationalist media either - I've seen it on my own street).

There are plenty of "fors" but there seems to be, with the way government are talking about NHS in crisis, shutting schools etc etc that there are plenty of "against" too

FillyjonkisCALM · 01/02/2008 09:29

er...immigrants do pay taxes, at least if we let them

IMO the problem comes when we don't allow them to work legally, because then they are not paying taxes.

Am never sure about the "taking benefits and sending it back home" thingy. First off, IIRC most immigrants from the new EU states actually can't claim benefits for about a year (? ) anyway. Second, benefits are hardly enough to live in. Bloody hell, if conditions are that dire in parts of the EU that people are prepared to do whatever you need to do to have change out of a giro at the end of the week-THAT needs sorting IMO.

Oh and NQC I must take issue with you re Russian cuisine. We had a Russian friend over recently and she cooked and it was truly fabulous food . It involved potatoes and cream and other high calorie things, which I think can only be good .

ivykaty44 · 01/02/2008 09:30

but if we don't have immigration then we have a situation where for example 100 000 000 pensioners and 20 000 000 workers - that will mean that the pensioners will have to live of less money, therefore will be worse off than they are now.

At the moment pensioners have to choose between heating or food - so then they will not have to choose between food and heating cos they willnot be able to afford either.

Yes there are fors and against but there are more fors than there are againsts.

dustydoorknobs · 01/02/2008 09:33

immigration would be great if the government supported it adequately. financially i mean. as Lewis says, there's not enough money in Nhs and education, so not enough resources to support the immigration in this country.

also - isn't it worth remembering that people who EMIGRATE out of Britan tend to be of a very different class than the people who IMMIGRATE into Britain. So Mr and Mrs Posh-Knobs sell their 500,000 pound home and retire to the south of France, whereas Mr and Mrs Immigrant from Uganda or Poland or wherever can't afford Mr & Mrs Posh-Knobs house so they live in a council flat in Luton.

dustydoorknobs · 01/02/2008 09:37

Also - not being funny, but pensioners get plenty of money. If they have paid enough NI to get a decent pension then that is plenty to live on. My mum gets 60 odd quid a week, and my dad gets 80+ an army pension. they also get winter fuel allowance which is quite a lot. If a pensioner hasn't paid enough NI to get a decent pension they get guarentee pension credits to top up. IME (and i have worked with plenty of eldery people) the trouble comes from being poor money managers, not the lack of money itself.

HeadHeartorHormones · 01/02/2008 09:37

But we are a small and overcrowded island. I therefore propose a simple one-in, one-out system. i.e. for every foreign worker, their dependent or student in, one Daily Mail reader has to leave. What do you think?

FioFio · 01/02/2008 09:40

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Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/02/2008 09:40

Dusty - Following on from what you say, I think part of the reason it is now (more) respectable to moan publicly about immigration is that there is now a class of rich Eastern Europeans esp Russians coming into Britain who compete with the middle classes to buy Mrs Posh-Knob's house, thus sending prices up and affecting people who previously hadn't been affected by immigration. (That's my impression from random newspaper articles, anyway. But perhaps it's rubbish.)

dustydoorknobs · 01/02/2008 09:41

and another thing a lot of elderly people either own their own home or don't have a lot of mortgage to pay. If they rent their home from the council they get a lot of their rent paid for them. IME the trouble comes from elderly people renting privately then not being able to afford it - or living in a house that's tied to a job then being homeless later on in life. And yeah I know what you're going to say, If they rent privately why should they lose their home when they get to a certain age? well I've moved house so many times i've lost count and i've always rented privately.

And don't tell me there aren't enough resources for eldery people - Age Concern do a sterling job as do lots of community projects. IMO elderly people are all too often stubborn and too independent to take advice/meals on wheels etc.

Upwind · 01/02/2008 09:41

"...Bloody hell, if conditions are that dire in parts of the EU that people are prepared to do whatever you need to do to have change out of a giro at the end of the week-THAT needs sorting IMO..."

From what I hear, it is more the case that the cost of living is very much lower, elsewhere, than in the UK. So it is worth working here and saving the change from a giro, when you know that sooner or later you can go back to your home country with a nice nest egg.

More people in the UK, means less space to go around. With dire public transport systems, this means a reduced quality of life for many people. Those most in favour of mass immigration tend to be those who can benefit from availing of the cheap labour. Those most against face competition for accomodation and jobs.

ivykaty44 · 01/02/2008 09:43

Well someone has to have the money to buy Mr & Mrs Posh nobs house - otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell up and emmigrate.

dustydoorknobs · 01/02/2008 09:43

But Fio - it's your choice not emigrate. Both Holland and Switzerland have excellent medical facilities and are far better than the UK at providing help for SN children. ok, you will prbably have to pay for them, but if your OH's prfession is highly regarded over there, you would be able to afford it wouldn't you?

YouKnowNothingOfTheCrunch · 01/02/2008 09:43

Ooh HHoH! I love the "has to leave" - it'll solve all social ills. Farewell daily mail readers! Farewell those who sit on their arses doing nothing while complaining that the reason there are no jobs is because all the immigrants have taken them - nothing to do with the laziness issues. That'd solve the problem.

ladylush · 01/02/2008 09:44

I don't think £60 a week is much.

dustydoorknobs · 01/02/2008 09:44

Ivy - yes, but they're not usually immigrants.

Lulumama · 01/02/2008 09:46

agree with filly and hecate

I find the 'blardy forrinerrs taking our jobs line' very , very uncomfortable

my great grandparents were immigrants...very few people are 'pure' white anglo saxon protestants

also , i read somewhere, and have never read it since, that emmigration and immigration pretty much balance out

plenty of people born and bred here play the system, abuse the benefits system, don;t pay tax etc... so let's sort those people out before we attack the immigrants who are here to graft

there are good and bad amongst the immigrant and the indigenous (?) populace

FioFio · 01/02/2008 09:47

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