10 million immigrants estimated to flood into UK by whatever year, I dunno...

[Hecate]

So what? The island is pretty secure. It won't sink under the weight of an extra 10 million people. We're not all going to be treading water

Immigrants, immigrants arrgg arrgghh

The issue is not immigrants immigrants arghh help me gerrem off..

It is making sure that the balance remains.

Of course you can't have more people without putting the infrastructure - is that the right word? - in place. So more people need more houses and services - but more people provide more LABOUR to run the extra services and earn money so pay more TAXES to fund the extra services. There are so very many places - brownfield?? available for regeneration, so it's not like we are going to have to build flats over Stonehenge and ruin our beautiful countryside cos of course, a field and a bunch of flowers must be protected while someone sleeps in a cardboard box under a railway bridge. (an argument for another day )

There's just no reason I can see why we can't have many more people come here as long as they are contributing by working. It surely just evens itself out in the end? More people need more houses need more services create more jobs fill more jobs earn more money pay more tax buy more things create more jobs....

We've been in a period of economic growth. I reckon when the economy goes thoroughly tits-up - as it is showing every indication of doing - immigration levels will drop as the UK becomes a less attractive proposition. Without imposing strict controls I really can't see how forward projections on immigration figures can amount to much more than a wild guess.

Very good post Lulu < Claps loudly >

So elderly people should not have to sell their family sized homes in old age, or give them up if council owned?

So immigrants should be welcomed and accomodated as they will pay the boomers old age pensions?

So we shouldn't build over the green belt, or in scenic areas but rather on the "brownfield" former playing fields and contaminated land.

Okay then, but a large portion of young people will be forced to live in cramped accomodation and/or with brutal commutes. House prices are already insane, and few young families in private rentals enjoy security of tenure.

"We've been in a period of economic growth. I reckon when the economy goes thoroughly tits-up - as it is showing every indication of doing - immigration levels will drop as the UK becomes a less attractive proposition."

I keep hearing that, but it assumes that the UK economy will go tits-up on its own. With globalisation the UK may still be very attractive compared to elswhere.

i think there is a balance to be had in this, and the balance includes immigration. unfortunately, every society needs a scapegoat for all its ills

for lack of jobs

for lack of affordable housing

for stretched public services

none of these are the fault of immigrants, but the fault of governement, past and present in pushing this country to the limit without funding public services adequately

those who cannot see a doctor for 2 weeks, go and talk to downing street, tis not to do with immigrants per se

You can't pin our housing crisis on immigration. It has been fueled mainly by the promotion of buy-to-let, and cheap and ready credit.

Upwind - yes, that's a fair point. However I think there will be far more stable parts of Europe for example - countries whose peoples are not so over-extended on credit. Sweden anyone?

I live outside the UK, but in a country that always had to send it's people across the water for work and a better life.

Recently the economy [thanks to the EU] took a massive upturn, and the emigration slowed down and people from other countries started to come.

They brought with them diversity of culture and a desire to better their lives and their families.

Who am I to deny them?

The people in Govt steal, spin and lie, talk about statistics and suond bites.

The media feeds us even more lies and would have us all living in fear of our fellow man, and yet, if the boot was on the other foot, and we all lived in abject poverty or in a war-torn country or maybe just felt that life would be better for our children elsewhere, wouldn't we take the chance to start that new life?

I agree Lulumama, we need to sort out our own who refuse to work before we start criticising immigrants who are happy to work and pay taxes.

However, there is a knock on effect.

My DH owns a recruitment agency for lorry drivers. Recently he went to a meeting with a HUGE company who told him what they are willing to pay for drivers - can't remember the exact figure but was ridiculous given that it can cost up to £2k for a C1 licence. My DH responded that you couldn't expect them to work for that. They're reponse - "well, if you can't get your existing boys to work for that, you should start recruiting immigrants".

Due to currency fluctuations, immigrants think they're getting a good deal (yes, exploitation on the companies behalf) but as a result wages in certain sectors are going down.

The government really needs to address this, although not sure how.

Sweden has a huge ratio of immigrants (similar discussions there, and I suspect in a lot of European countries). Apparently the figures for Sweden in 2006 was 96 000here (total popn just over 9 mill). According to here the figures of foreign nationals settling in the UK were 179 000 in 2004.

Would be interesting to see a table comparing ratios of immigrants and emigrants to population with a number of other European countries.

Fio - xMIL is Dutch (although now lives over here in UK) and is always praising their medical services. Why don't you ask on here - there are a number of Dutch (and possibly Swiss) expats, they might know better than me.

A bit of an echo of what has been said already - but I'm just reflecting on the fact that I, along with just about every friend I can think of have lived abroad for at least a year. Some have done it for considerably longer - and three look like they will emigrate. How many british expats are there at any one time?

"You can't pin our housing crisis on immigration. It has been fueled mainly by the promotion of buy-to-let, and cheap and ready credit."

Agreed, though immigration will have had some effect on demand. The trouble is that immigrants are an easy scapegoat and now that there is the begining of an economic downturn they are being blamed.

In some sectors, like lorry driving mentioned above, immigration does drastically reduce the going rate for labour. It makes it very hard for people do do an honest days work and feel that they are providing for their loved ones.

I have a suspicion that, unfortunately, the BNP will do very well out of all this.

i dont mind as long as everyone who comes here supports themselves, like we would if we emmigrated. if they dont want to support themselves and contribute to our society i think they should stay away.

well, aside from asylum seekers, who are generally people fleeing rape and persecution (oh they ARE, I have worked in immigration, but truly cannot be arsed to get into a debate about colour tvs and council houses )

ASIDE from them, most immigrants ARE coming here to work

And no its not just mrs posh-nob who is moving abroad. It is daily mail/sun readers going to Spain (normally without actually learning to SPEAK spanish, just relying on speaking very loudly ) , not to mention the students going to BUNAC countries, or the gap year students off to help-a-poor-person.

We have our economic migrants also. But they are ok because they are ours .

Oh and I'm sorry, but poverty among the elderly IS a bloody huge problem. Old people ARE choosing between food and fuel. They just are, I've worked with them, I've seen the choices they are making, its appalling and shocking. This is a huge national scandal IMO.

Hm, I wonder why there are so many UK expats in Asia????

Most of thes immigrants are frm countries where life is very difficult. Try looking on the mosi net thread, maybe you'll learn some things.

Im disgusted with those people who look down on immigrants. You don't know what life is like for some people and you have no idea how fortunate your are. Try living in Laos where you get no help fr the disabled, the sick, the poor. If you have an elderly relative, you look after the person yourself.