Whether to smack or not

[Awenamanger]

Hi, was just interested in your opinions on this subject. I read a piece in a book which may be interesting for debate. Please dont lynch me btw

'Myths that surround the use of spanking:

myth: Spanking is harmless.
fact: sspanking makes parenting more difficult because is reduces parents' ability to influene their children, especially when the children are teens and too big to be controlled by phsyical force. Also, authority figures should be trusted and respected, not feared.

myth: I was spanked, and i'm ok
Fact: You made it despite being hit; hitting increases the probability that you are more likely to use agression to handle conflicts

myth: if you dont spank, your children will be spoiled or run wild.
fact: nonspanked children are better behaved than are children of parents who spank. non-spanking parents tend to pay more attention to thier children's behaviour and tend to do more explaining and reasoning, which helps children to develop internal controls.

myth: Prents spank rarely or only for serious problems
fact: Parents who spank tend to use this method for almost any misbehaviour; many do not even give the child a warning - they spank before even trying other things.

myth: It is unrealistic to expect parents to never spank
fact: It is no more unrealistic to expect parents to not hit a child than to expect husbands not to hit their wifes or employers not to hit their employees.'

Source: Fontaine & Fletcher, Mental Health Nursing 5th Edition, 2003, Prentice Hall Press. Adapted from Straus M A (1994) Beating the devil out of them: Corporal punishment in American families, Lexington, MA, Lexington Books

I dont know if I am unusual but I do not smack my ds.

klucky?? LOL barmy more like. I meant lucky. x bloody knackered now. Need sleep been work on essay for 24 hours straight.. to tired to type now. xx

Oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot you didn't have residency. I think it's awful. Do you think you could go back to court and get it? I think you'd stand a good chance. How old is your son? Does he say he'd rather live with you? I feel for you so much. Sorry for being so tactless.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot you didn't have residency. I think it's awful. Do you think you could go back to court and get it? I think you'd stand a good chance. How old is your son? Does he say he'd rather live with you? I feel for you so much. Sorry for being so tactless.

I chose not to smack when my 1st 2 were small as it had quite the opposite effect!.I now have a 2.4 son and i don't smack.I am older this time around and i explain more to him than i did with DD and DS1.
I had my beliefs justified a few weeks ago when i met someone who i used to work with while pg.She has since has a daughter who is now 13 months and smacks her all the time.(i don't mean thrash~she smacks her once on the hand or leg).There is never a warning before the smacks and TBH i don't think any 13 months old tot would understand why Mummy is hurting her!.As a result the tot goes around bashing other kids~she obviously see this as normal.

Just wanted to add~i use a "calm down"chair for my son.When he has behaved in an unacceptable way i ask him to sit in one particular chair in our lounge.I stay with him but i won't allow him to get down for 2 minutes~1 minute for each year of his life.I don't use this punishment often as he is usually well behaved and easy to reason with.After about 40 seconds he 'll say"i sorry Mummy" and i explain what he's done wrong for the remainder of his punishment.
~As for tantrums~i just ignore him and walk away~he soon gets bored!.
**I also found Taming Toddlers a good read!

Dont worry aloha Yes he does say he wants to live with me. Courts wont listen at 4 and things are changing constantly too. Really really want him with me but if i push for more and lose we could lose what we have.

Finleysmum. .. Good for you that sounds very similar to how i discipline. But i do want to say wtf re smacking a 14 month old tot!! What is she going to do when she reaches the so called 'terrible twos'? Or when she is a teenager! You should give her the toddler taming book for xmas

Glad I didn't offend Aweninamanger. Really wish you could have your son with you. He deserves a mother like you. I think four would be a great age to get him back - before school and everything. You know the situation better than anyone and I know how awful court action can be, but have you talked to a good lawyer? Is there no hope? My son is just over three and I can only begin to imagine how much you miss your little boy.

Aloha - he has started school (went full time as of 5th Nov). Court case finaly finished 29/09/03 - they decided that we were equally good parents but that as ds had lived with xp for 19 months that it might unsettle him It took them bloody 19 months to agree that i had recovered from pnd. the court system was soo slow! Have spoken to solicitor and to quote her last letter 'It is possible that if you application ofr a residents order is unsuccessful that your future contact with could be reduced and you will not contiue to enjoy the reasonably generous contact.. It is important you understand these are risks before proceeding with an application for a Residents Order' Reasonably generous?? ffs every other week and shared hols. That being said it i do have extra weekends etc when xp wants to spend time with his gf but that is given by one hand and taken by the otehr.

Frustrating thing is the longer i leave it the harder it will be, but the older he is the more they will listen.

He didnt wanted to go toschool today and clung on to me. I have asked the school if that on my weekends can i help the class out while he is there. They thought that it would be ok.

Oh and xp dropped him off (late) this morning. Xp not aware ds had any homework again so spending the w/e doing some letters with him. xp hadn't even looked in school bag. xp also doesnt appear to have sorted a ticket for ds nativity. Oh and he said ds now has hot dinners and i needed to pay for them on monday. Didnt ask, didnt anything. and on that sort of subject, i got ds full new school uniform and shoes - xp was to get trousers and t-shirts as i got bag, jumpers, hat, shoes etc. Anyway ds first day I had to go to m&s so that he had trousers and tops as xp said he could unpack them in time. transipred that he never bought him any, but had second hand ones. NO prob with 2nd hand but for first time at school? And xp has money to buy himself brand new wardrobe. Sorry starting to get realy pissed off with him and this isnt the thread for it

Sorry for the rant, it just feels like xp does think about ds and care for him fully. He sees him as a buddy, first full time day at school i picked him up. ds told me xp made him cry before school (being 1st full day, kind of special one would think). The reason for the tears.. xp refused to help him get dressed and get shoes on. xp doesnt 'mother' him at all. Doesnt bath him, when ds has bath ds has to wash himself, has done for ages. xp doesnt read a bedtime storey.. ds said to me 'he gets lonely at xp's' when i asked why he said 'its not when daddys not there (wtf does that mean? does he leave him there alone??) it is when daddy is there and he sends me away from him' my response, oh sweetie how come? 'cos daddy wont play with me, he wants a cigarette and cop of tea'. This is the daddy who send ds to childminder from 7.30 to 6.00 5 days a week. Would think would make most of evenings?? He was sending him 5 days a week when he only worked 3 day.. to give himself a 'break'. Oh and then on his weekends if he wants to do something with gf i babysit (which of course i jump at). Strikes me the amoundt of time he actually has ds with him he might as well have the access and i have full time. Would mean that he got 'special time' that way. Anyway, xp said ds can live with me when he is 16 if he wants to then. oh and xp is so motivated by money i can help but wonder if this is a factor?

Before I had ds1, I thought smacking was ok in the classic "child runs into road" scenario. Since then, I've changed my mind, and hope to never hit him.

The experience that changed my mind most, was when we had a friend of his over to tea. The friend was, and is, very allergic to dairy. We weren't paying attention, and he grabbed a piece of cheese from someone else's plate. Several of us saw it at the same time, shouted and grabbed it. We weren't angry, just anxious and stressed.

He burst into tears.

If a child's carers are upset about something, the child will notice, and care. Shouting with anger and slapping just aren't necessary.

I'm a big fan of long calm lectures to deal with less serious infractions. I don't believe that all my words are getting through, particularly when DS1 was under 2 - the boredom of the lecture was the punishment.

Notquitecockney - lol at 'boredom of lectures is the punishment' (I think that's how my dh often feels!)

paolosgirl - hmm, am thinking about what you said but still think that time out witha child = adults saying 'Let's leave this here for bit while we cool down'. Would you feel it was inappropriate if during an escalating situation your partner or you asked for 5 mins to cool off, or to come back to the issue later with a clear head. That's how I think of time out.

It's very rare my 5yr old is on the step for more than about a minute before having thought it through and calmed down. Although there have been some full blown tantrums recently which have actually got worse for a few minutes on being put on step. I think awanamanger may be right about the school tiredness starting to kick in. Plus being wound up by the approach to christmas - calendar, school play, etc...

Awanemanger - v. worried about your situation - surely can't be right? Make sure you write down EVERY little thing that is not done to your satisfaction, and could possibly be considered not good parenting, and the date, and a witness if ever possible. You never know when it might be useful. Have you confidence in your solictor? I spoke to several before I met one that instilled me with confidence about my rather tricky current situation in family law. Can pass you his details if you ever feel the urge to consult a new one!

Agree you should keep notes of EVERYTHING and see about getting a better, more on-your-side solicitor. Keep notes of when your ex forgets homework - everything. What is your current contact? Is it every other weekend or every other week? Do you have any weekday contact? Do you work f/t? Could you cut your working week to three or four days to put yourself in a stronger position to claim residence? I don't want to seem pushy but you seem so lovely...

Peskykid - I know what you're saying, but the difference is that if I could reason with the kids in the same way, and we could both agree to some cool-down time, then that is completely different from 'time-out' which is ultimately a punishment(for want of a better word) meted out by the adult to the child in response to something they've done wrong.
As I said earlier, I'm ambivalent to the whole issue, but I suppose I don't believe that the odd smack on the backside is the heinous crime it is sometimes made out to be. There are FAR worse things that an adult can do to a child, believe me.

Well, I remember getting hit/smacked - and I was furious about it and, yes, it has made barriers between me and my parents that have lasted to this very day. It's hard to have a real friendship with someone you remember hitting you. I thought they were wrong to do it at the time, and I still think they were wrong to do it. I don't care what they thought the provocation was, and I don't care what was happening in their lives, IMO they had no right to hit me, and one of the big reasons I don't hit my son is because I have such vivid memories of my own fury about it. Being hit feels bloody personal, nasty and unloving IMO. I know lots of people will say, 'but I was smacked and I don't feel like this', but how do you know your kids won't grow up feeling as I do?

That post probably sounds crosser than it was meant to... am grumpy with horrible cold. Still think its a bit of risk though.

I was hit, too. Not continually or abusively, I don't think. I don't remember fury so much as humiliation. I don't want to make my sons feel that way.

Of course there are worse things parents can do. But there are also (many) better things.

I rarely use time out as a punishment as such, more of a cool down when daughter gets overheated. I tend to use a stern voice and a Paddington hard stare (MUCH scarier than it sounds!) In fact, it was remarked on that just saying "I'm very cross with that behaviour" to my daughter can reduce her to tears. (Mary bleedin' Poppins, that's me NOT!

Ideal parenting is an just that - an ideal, and yes, there are far worse things than a smack on the bum. But I just think it's a bit of a lazy way to instill discpline in a child on a regular basis, and only really an outlet for a parent's fear / shock / panic / anger when used on the hoof.

I still find it surprising that people actually advocate smacking as a method, rather than admit it stems from an adults anger. I almost understand the smacking in rage tack more than the regular smacking approach... which is odd I know!

IME the facts originally posted are truthful. I also find smacking children bizzare. I found a comment made to me once even more bizarre though...during a debate on this someone said to me "You are going to have to terms with the fact that one day you will."...Huh? I never have, and never will smack my children. Ever!

Levanna, I always thought I would never smack my child but my temper got the better of me one day and I did smack her bum. You may be far more in control of your temper, and I think it's in no way a given that everyone WILL smack their child, but I was mortified that I lost my self control in that moment so I would never say never now..

I'm sorry if I came over as self rightous. It's quite a sensitive issue personally for me, I should imagine it is for many people. I know undoubtedly that I wont ever lift a hand to my DD's. It's not a matter of temper in this case; I do have quite a temper! I just would not allow myself to do that to a child, it isn't in me to behave like that towards them, I really do see smacking as bizarre, in the truest sense of the word.

Sorry, I havent ignored the messages posted to me.. just been having a fantastic weekend with ds and been so knackered and fallen asleep doing his bedtime song!

Thank you aloha & peskykids :) I do try and write it all down, and kind of kick my self sometimes when i forget to cos I am so focused on ds. To answer some questions

I have ds everyother weekend but.. there are times i have him more. For example javing him over for tea after school today as he has his nativity and I am going to go :) On those line, xp is not able to go due to work commitments altho i wonder if he remembered to ask in time. Oh and ds's home was not done again but I have helped ds do his work and he is really proud, bless him :) x. ds was meant to have a party outfit for nativity supplied by xp. ds told me it was just his old trousers etc. School teacher showed me today and it was his bumming around clothes so i bought in a smart party outfit. Teacher was realy sweet about it.

Re solicitor, I guess my cofidence has been knocked by the whole case. Having to prove myself well and good. I am so frightened of losing him completely because b4 all this happened if someone told me u could lose ur child through pnd not sure i would have believed them.

Re better position work wise. I am a fulltime student - 2nd year of nursing now. Course is fairly child friendly, loads of other students have children.

Only and hour or so till i go see him at school. Excited :) Then his dad collects him after tea and i try and finish this assignment which is due in.. tomorrow!! (yikes). Then back on placement tues, wed and thurs night.

xp out with his gf next w/e so have ds sat night. Then week after for weeked and the week over xmas.. and :) xp asked me to have him 2 weeks in feb during school time. I of course said yes.

Re smacking: hope never to :) Nearly had time out this weeked but didnt get that far. He is continually asking for everything and stropping when i say no. He had a sit down in the shopping centre on saturday, sat with him and said everyone is looking at us and thinking we are very silly and i dont like it so i am going to carry on shopping, are you coming?.. he did, tried so hard not to laugh.

re the paddington stare.. That works!! rofl, i even try to use it on dp, but he just does it back!..

Whoa!! that was a long posting.. cripes if i lecture to my ds as much as i typed there thta would explain alot!! ( the blank look on his face, constant fidgeting .. lol)

I'm sure you will never 'lose' your son because you want more contact! I'm feel sure you solicitor is quite wrong about that. You have the basic minimum at the moment - every other weekend.
But that aside, do try keeping a record and getting a new solicitor and have a lovely time at the nativity play.

Time out works best on ds at the moment. I did smack his hand once. He had gotten into a habit of pulling my hair so hard he was pulling it out by the handful and nothing was getting through to him. I also still had severe PND at the time and everything was overwhelming. I think ultimately though, the timeout still worked best in that situation as well.