Whether to smack or not

[Awenamanger]

Hi, was just interested in your opinions on this subject. I read a piece in a book which may be interesting for debate. Please dont lynch me btw

'Myths that surround the use of spanking:

myth: Spanking is harmless.
fact: sspanking makes parenting more difficult because is reduces parents' ability to influene their children, especially when the children are teens and too big to be controlled by phsyical force. Also, authority figures should be trusted and respected, not feared.

myth: I was spanked, and i'm ok
Fact: You made it despite being hit; hitting increases the probability that you are more likely to use agression to handle conflicts

myth: if you dont spank, your children will be spoiled or run wild.
fact: nonspanked children are better behaved than are children of parents who spank. non-spanking parents tend to pay more attention to thier children's behaviour and tend to do more explaining and reasoning, which helps children to develop internal controls.

myth: Prents spank rarely or only for serious problems
fact: Parents who spank tend to use this method for almost any misbehaviour; many do not even give the child a warning - they spank before even trying other things.

myth: It is unrealistic to expect parents to never spank
fact: It is no more unrealistic to expect parents to not hit a child than to expect husbands not to hit their wifes or employers not to hit their employees.'

Source: Fontaine & Fletcher, Mental Health Nursing 5th Edition, 2003, Prentice Hall Press. Adapted from Straus M A (1994) Beating the devil out of them: Corporal punishment in American families, Lexington, MA, Lexington Books

I dont know if I am unusual but I do not smack my ds.

I truly belive that my son would be hysterical with terror if I shut him in his bedroom for 2 minutes. You can't do that anyway when you're not at home. If he reaches out to touch a fire, and keeps doing it despite telling, moving hand an shouting hot! I will smack his hand. He does not understand that if he burns himself despite my best effort, he might have to go to hospital. I explain these things anyway, before I resort to the smacked hand, but he doesn't understand yet. However he does understand that reaching for the fire will sting, that is what the smack taught him.

I totally agree, an explanation etc does not teach a child the "painfull" but less "painfull" consequence of their proposed action. At certain ages and with vigilance from a parent, the "explanation" on its own won't necessarily stop them from a trying a course of action again. He/she may have been stalled not prevented and educated. In my experience, and I stress its only mine with DS, the first time he gets a smack for it, he doesn't do it again. I wonder how much longer it would take me to "educate" him if I had to go through umpteen similar scenarios trying to "explain" every single time?

thought this might get a bit heated.

Just wanted to clarify.. time out does not involve locking/shutting or whatever my son in his bedroom for any amount of time. It involves sitting quietly whether that be the bottom of the stairs or on the sofa. No toy to play with, no fuss till he calms down and he can talk to me.

My xp sends him to his room at his and leaves him there for god knows how long, that is damaging.

I understand point about hand out to hot fire etc. I have had that happen, thank goodness and tbh I am not quite sure how I would react. My hand might just smack his away but that isnt the same as getting a child to hold out their hand to receive 'their punsihment'. Sheesh I remember that happening to me and how utterly unloved and worthless i felt.

Also is it really worth smacking a child over a tantrum. So they lose control of thier emotions and embarrass you infront of other shoppers. tbh i dont give a monkeys what snotty shoppers who look down on a child screaming.. I mean of course they 'never' had a paddy over sweets! And i refuse scream back at ds or smack him or lose control of my emotions. It appears to be working and he seems to understand that you do not need to resolve issues by screaming or smacking.. Bless if I do my stern voice he soon listens!

Oh and my sis used to raise her voice and occasionally smack her 3 dd's and she has recently stopped having seen how I manage and reading countless books.. and guess what. Her girls have responded brilliantly.. Ok kids arent always little angels and some push the boundries way more than others.

I am not saying anyone here is bad etc or trying to make them think so, I just think that it is good to be able to talk taboo's

Oh and I totally agree we need to teach little ones and set the rules etc etc Teachers have to teach little ones at school and set the boundries and they cope with classes of 30 or more without smacking them (i hope )

OK, better get back to assignment.. done more typing here than there!

OH and thank you caluiga

Hello all. I think if people smack their children thats their choice. I choose NOT to smack mine.

I think the thing we need to remember is, im talking a smack on the bottem or hand NOT a full scale beating, which reallt gets my blood boiling.

I have smacked my childrens fingers for touching the fire, and i did smack DD bottem when she broke from her wrist strap and in a tantrum ran into the road. Luckily the road was clear, and she didnt do it again.

But i do feel some parents hand out this disapline far too willy-nilly.
My children go on tv bans and they hate that. But it works.

Ooh yes, a Cbeebie ban - the ultimate sanction!

Tantrums are definitely best dealt with by totally ignoring them, or certainly that's the case with mine. It is nearly always about seeking attention, so I turn my back.

I think what I find difficult about the smacking issue is that everyone (me included) gets a LITTLE judgemental. I think that there is a tendency to draw the conclusion that if you smack a child for doing something really naughty, or really dangerous, that you must be doing it all the time. In my experience that is simply not the case.

Always explaining things to a child, who does not necessarily truly understand, is very tiring and can be counter productive as they are then just awash with words and lose the thread of what it is you are getting at. Sometimes direct action is necessary.

I also HATE this government for making it an issue. I don't think good parents need any more burdens to bear. Smacking is NOT the same as beating and abuse.

Cal - I have read Toddler Taming by Dr Christopher Green - actually it is on the bookshelves next to me now My eldest sister has got the next stage book which goes through teens.. yikes!! Her dd is hitting the teens with a real impact, she kinda of reminds my big sis of me lol

good post warmmum. I didnt say parents who smack occasioanlly beat their children all the time tho.. that was a quote which i referenced.. thought would make for interesting debate tho

I do think though if children are consistently smacked and that it the 'norm' for punishment it could have longer term effects. When i spoke to ss & nspcc xp can smack my ds aslo as he doesnt leave bruises which i find thoroughly unacceptable. Emotional hurt can take a hell of alot longer to recover from. My ds said xp said he was a naughty boy and that why he was smacked. I explained or tried to that sometimes ds might do things that are a bit naughty but that does make him naughty inside.

Awenamanger - didn't mean to imply you were drawing with the broad brush

I tell you what - MNetters should spend a week running the country and the cabinet/civil servants should spend a week with three children each and see how we all get on!!!

Warmum - your post of 10.04 is spot on

that is fantastic!!!! lol

Very very good warmmum. thank you.

I do have to say this site is amazing, it is great to be able to talk to other mums. Mums who have different opinions and some who have similiar views but so far no-one that has been rude or offensive.

Sappy i know but isnt it amazing the bond that women develops when you have a child?

Can any1 tell i have had no sleep - trying ot finish 4000 word essay (having a quick break), do 37.5 hours a week on placement (nights mainly) and of course their is my little ds, but he does stay with his dad too so not here tonight.

When I get tired I get either ratty or soft.. think i have gone soft today.. doesnt help that i am listening to love songs of the 50's and 60's - very loudly i might add

Paolosgirl - just quickly to say why I think that time out is an acceptable method of discipline for a child. When a situation gets out of hand and needs cooling down, as an adult I can choose to walk away and time myself out. Thus the heat's off. As a child, you do not have the thought process to walk away (until you're older when it may get you in to more trouble if you don't have the language skils to express you're thought politly before doing so! )

That's why when my 5 yr old goes bananas, and I haven't been able to head it off at the pass, she gets to sit on the step until she's calmed down and can tell me what the problem is. I'm not sure that that's different from saying, hey guys, let's take a breather it's all getting abit overheated.

I think smacking is often a loss of temper from a an adult, someone mentioned hwo tiring it is to keep explaing things to children. They had a point about a child can get awash with words, but noone said parenting was easy and getting tired of a repetitive action with children just comes with the territory imho.

dreafull types - sorry gals!

I'll get me coat....

But what do you do when they don't understand time-out? Not critasizing, I will use it when he's older, but ds is only 20mo, and pretty non-verbal.

I really am interested to know which forms of discipline can be used at this age.

Peskey, I uunderstood typos and all my ds is 5 in feb. Sometimes they get so worked up and its a job not to giggle. the other day he threw his toy in a stroppy and i was why do that and by this time he was getting really cross. Anyway time out time for like 60 seconds cos he started crying and i asked him why he was so upset.. bearing in mind he hadnt done anything and there was no warning to his little huff. He said.. I just wanted a cuddle. Bless him. I felt like utter crap and hugged and squished and kissed him and tried to explain to him that if he wants a cuddle he can just grab me.. Looking back tho, he has just started school full time and is absolutely knackered with it so i think it is partly that too. You know when you are so so tired that you just want to cry and hug and stomp and all that. Love my ds.. he is a sweetie

Colditz, a firm no. Remove hand away. And again and again lol but I didnt make like a fuss, I made it well.. boring really. And distraction - wow does that work! and when distracted - praise.. then they forget what they were doing!

Basically make the behaviour you like fun and when they are playing nicely join them and praise them etc. If kids only get attention when they are in mischief then they will do more mischief. Some attention is better than none.

Thank you Dr Green whereever u r btw

Awen, you know what? I wouldn't send my child to a place where he got hit. Just would not do it. The courts can't touch you if you simply refuse to allow contact until your ex agrees to stop hitting this little boy. It would kill me to think about it. I hope you don't mind me posting this. I am NOT suggesting you are negligent or anything AT ALL - just suggesting that I personally think you would be entirely justified in telling your ex that he will only get to see his ds if he stops hurting him.

My son is three and I don't smack him either, though he sometimes drives me loony.

aloha, I would seriously consider that if i had residency actually tbh i would insist but i am so blinking used to having to be 'diplomatic' and maintain a positive relationship with my lovely xp.. (feeling the sarcasm their)

Children have that knack of pushing you as far as humanly possible, dont they?
I usually leave the room if they wind me up too much, have a cuppa then go back in and try to sort it out. I would hate to be one of these moms who smack their children for every little thing.

Peskykid, I understand what you were saying, but it doesn't really answer the question (and by the way, I am ambivalent about smacking - each to their own, and in no way do I believe the non-smackers make 'better' parents, or vice versa).
The oft-repeated arguement is that if you wouldn't let your partner smack you, why do you do it to your child. Well, following that logic, then why would you have time out? I wouldn't accept ANY form of time out from my husband, be it the stairs, my room or whatever. Time out is accepted at the mo - it may be that in 30 years time-out is just as frowned upon, and we may be forbidden in law from ignoring our children. Who knows!!

I am quite klucky i think. My ds does rile me as much as i do all i can not to giggle. He just looks so cute when he stamps his foot.. reminds me of someone from a long time ago that did the same