James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

[suzywong]

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

No but it does demonstrate how society does let down, those who need help. If someone like grandsons dad can be left to rot in the middle of the system, how can we expect children who grow up in the middle of 'shitty' families to get help.

They were children, we are adults and should know better.

I agree with Stilltrue. The crime was horrific and deeply disturbing. But we live in a society where such actions are dealt with by the state. Indeed, this is one of the most basic functions of a state. I wouldn't want to live in a society where people could take the law into their own hands.

Thanks hercules for your posts on this thread.

Totally agree. We can't expect the law to work for us in whatever capacity, if we're not willing to accept that people can be rehabilitated.

Yes it was a vile crime that they committed - but they have to be allowed a chance to get on with their lives. People do change, hopefully for the better. How much have any of you changed since you were 10 years old?

Included in any justice system should be forgiveness and a chance to be rehabiliated. If you take these things away what sort of society are you left with?
On a practical basis it would mean raising taxes to try to cope with the enormous amount needed to keep people incarcirated never mind where you find the space for everyone.

I agree with Hercules and cannot see how evil is in people. Especially when these two boys clearly were a product of their circumstances, okay so not all kids who have a rough time go out and commit murder, but I do think their upbringing resulted in this tradegy. So to say evil just exists is a way of not having to lay any blame at anyones feet other than the prepetrators of crime. But realistically we do live in a disfunctional and cruel society where everyday murder rates increase, kids become more unruly and agressive, theives get away with their crime, powerful nations invade others resulting in many deaths whilst countries ravaged by poverty and war are ignored. I could go on, society is fcked, and more and more kids are going to grow up fcked, as the moral foundations on which decent bahviour was built are truley crumbling on every level. Evil is a product of our society and was not just placed in someone at birth.

she's quoted as saying
"It gives me a sense of power knowing I can spot them," she said.
"I have no intention of doing anything - I just want to know what they look like and where they are."
I feel soo sorry for this poor woman - is she going to spend her life following them around, feeling "paralysed with hatred"? Of course she will never get 'over' jamie's death but I don't see how knowing where they are can help her

Managed to look at the NOW article and and from what I can see Denise Ferguson isn't out to get the killers. And im pretty sure that with the right sort of gutter journalistic help she will find the other one pretty soon too, after all it does sell newspapers. I think that vigilante groups aren't hte answer either but do feel that we can make too many excuses and justifications for people like the Thompson & Venebles.

Taking Joash's situation, her gs's dad was shunted round care homes and foster homes and has ended up (to date) not a very nice character by the sounds of it. So would the same institutions have helped T&V? probably not IMO

I agree that they were children and that we are adults and should know better. Does this mean that their parents, as adults should have know better? Or are they also victims of their own dysfunctional upbringing. When do we become responsible for our own actions? and this is an honest question

That's a good point hmb. But how do we becomen responsible for our own actions if we have never had decent role models and never learned the proverbial "right from wrong"?

but the original question was should she have the right to find out the locations of the killers. I think it would make for a very frightening society if that were the case since it would lead, quickly, to vigilantism but also, from her point of view just how is it going to help her? she said herself she felt paralysed with hatred. I just can't see it come to any good

...any good..for anyone

In that case...NO, I don't think that she should have the right to know the location of the 'killers'.

By the age of 10/11 these children would have had at least a couple of role models be they teachers, parents etc. Everyone we come into contact with as a child leaves a mark on us in some way surely?

I suppose jampot if you have a horredous abused childhood that is the predominant factor in how you become

No I dont think she should have the right to know the location of the killers, however her reasons are surely her reasons and not for us all to justify.

I see your point hmb but surely that is where society should step in to help adults who need help. Do we wash our hands of those who are lacking in the same social skills as us and punish them for their inadequasies or should there be far more parenting classes, social services involvement with families, reeducating programs etc.
god knows what the answer is.

Yes Nasa I see that major incidents will dominate your own personality formation and I suspect after being horrendously abused a school project about bullying wouldn't leave much of an impact. But how could "society" as a whole change that if society has let them down?

of course but it's just a discussion right? and there are wider implications (in the answer) for society as a whole.

I agree Nasa, I had what you've termed a "horredous abused childhood", I cannot remember one person who had any 'decent' impact on me, although there must surely have been someone. All I remember is the 's**t' that I went through. The last thing on a childs minds, is finding a role model.

No she shouldn't have the right. Her feelings should not come into it.

But Joash, presumably you've grown into a well adjusted woman with children and grandchildren of your own - i dont think children choose role models isn;t it just an affinity they feel towards certain people?

Often not sure about the 'well-adjusted' bit. I think that I just got to a point where I thought ...it's all in the past, I have to get on with my life - my s**t has made me who I am today, but I can understand how someone could swing in the other direction.

On the one hand I would love to do the vigilante bit, for myself and for grandson - but my head tells me it's wrong. I don't think that jamie Bulgers mum should know where those two live.

WHat is the point of kowing where these people are - I wouldn't want to know, it would probably just eat away at me.