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News

James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

1027 replies

suzywong · 28/11/2004 08:01

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

OP posts:
misdee · 28/11/2004 14:24

i am not saying that at all hercules. i am saying that 8yrs for a crime that is/was so shocking that some people to this day are sick to even think about it, and the stuff they did to young jamie was so horrific, that 8yrs must have seemed like a kick in the teeth to people involved in the system.

maybe if they had longer sentances, then people would be more 'open' to them being released and being back in socity. maybe then jamies mum would feel that they have paid enough for what they did.

hercules · 28/11/2004 14:26

Sorry I cant see the purpose in keeping them under lock and key for longer for a crime they commited when they were ten unless they needed further rehabilitation which could only be done under lock and key.

beetroot · 28/11/2004 14:28

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Caligula · 28/11/2004 14:28

At round about the same time as the James Bulger murder, another murder of a child happened in Norway, by other children. I remember reading about it and being stunned and surprised by how differently the Norwegian media and justice system treated the case.

The children responsible were not tried, as they were below the age of criminal responsibility, all parties were given extensive therapy and the child-killers went back to school and re-integrated into normal life. At no point did it occur to anyone, even the parents of the victim, that these children should be hounded or even punished. There was a spirit of "Why?" "What has happened in our community to make something so terrible happen?" "how can we make sure it doesn't happen again?" "How can we move on and live with this, without it scarring us forever?" Even in their newspapers. It appears the shameless rabble-rousing of the NOW is absent from their society (what are they missing out on?!)

It struck me forcibly what a very different society Norway must be from here. Overall, murder rates are lower, abuse rates are lower, literacy rates are higher, blah blah - on just about every quality of life index they score higher than us, on every negative index they score lower.

And the parents of the murdered child talked about their grief, how unending it will be, and yet how they are learning to carry on living. When it was suggested that perhaps the children should be punished, they were confused by the question - how can they be, they are just children, was the attitude. It could easily have been the other way around.

I wonder now, if those Norwegian parents are still being tortured today by their grief in the way that poor Denise Fergus is.

misdee · 28/11/2004 14:30

but how can 8years be enough? they went down when they were 10/11 ? were released when 18/19, so have the rest of their lvies looking over their sholders. do u really belive they will be rooming freely and left alone? no. maybe longer sentances would protect them for longer.

hercules · 28/11/2004 14:30

lovely 2 posts beetroot and calquila

enid · 28/11/2004 14:30

what a horrific idea (that she should have the right to find them)

hercules · 28/11/2004 14:32

Sadly they wont be left alone no matter when they are released as far too many people feel they can take the law into their own hands and will abuse them either through threats/name calling, violence etc.
That doesnt mean they should remain incarcirated.

misdee · 28/11/2004 14:33

but maybe if they had longer sentances of 15yrs uinstead of 8yrs their apparences would've change more in that time.

hunkermunker · 28/11/2004 14:34

I hate the whole revenge and eye for an eye mentality that the gutter press seems to think we should all display in cases like this. What Caligula says is spot on.

hercules · 28/11/2004 14:37

Sorry Misdee but I cant see how that justifies them remaining in prison for an exra 7 years just so that certain people wont be able to recognise them as well.

misdee · 28/11/2004 14:40

maybe because i still feel 8yrs for murser is too short.

the same way i feel sick when i hear a hit and run driver who was drunk got a short sentance.

hercules · 28/11/2004 14:45

but each case is different. You cant apply the same punishments to an adult that you do to a child.

aloha · 28/11/2004 14:47

It actually can be hard to know right from wrong if the people you rely on to love you and care for you when you are small and vulnerable hit you with iron bars instead.
God knows how I would feel if someone harmed my son. I fervently hope I will never know. I also hope that I wouldn't spend the rest of my life 'paralysed by hate' and wanting eternal revenge on a couple of kids. I can understand why someone would feel like that and it is impossible to condemn the feelings of someone who has experienced the death of a child, and I wouldn't want to walk in her shoes for one minute, and I feel very sad and very sorry that her life is - apparently - so totally destroyed. Poor little James suffered very much, and I could cry to think about him, but giving relatives the right to track down and hurt criminals would mean we lived in the kind of society that I, for one, wouldn't want to live in. There are plenty of murderers walking free today. Leslie Grantham is one, for heavens sake. Why so much particular hate for these two - who were just children when they committed their crime?

misdee · 28/11/2004 14:49

your probabl;y right yes.

but imo 8yrs is too short. maybe u dont feel that but i do.

i dont blame jamies mum for wanting to know where they are and what they look like, i dont think it will give her closure or anything, but she isnt saying to anyone else (apart from her friend in the car) where they are.

what if she just ran into them one day, having no idea where they are. i think they consequences of an unplanned meeting in shock circumstances woud be more damaging to herself and them.

lavender2 · 28/11/2004 14:51

what a terrible thing to say Aloha. Everyone is intitled to their opinions, it's a free country after all, but I wont say anything else as I can't agree with what you're saying. It beggers belief that you can say a couple of kids....going away as too angry to comment anymore and help dh with dinner...bye

PuffTheMagicDragon · 28/11/2004 14:52

?

beetroot · 28/11/2004 14:53

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KateandtheGirls · 28/11/2004 14:53

?

I thought Aloha's post was very eloquent and made a lot of sense.

misdee · 28/11/2004 14:53

lav?

lavender2 · 28/11/2004 14:56

why so much hate for these children? it's obvious am sorry but don't want to get drawn into this....wouldn't you hate them if it had been your child...am sorry but wont post again just wanted to say this as am a little perplexed that you can't understand why they're hated still!

Caligula · 28/11/2004 14:58

But they were a couple of kids at the time of the murder Lavender2. How would you prefer them to be referred to? Monsters? Beasts? That's the language the NOW used in its report. A very effective way of making them different from us, the "other". What they did was monstrous and beastly, but they were neither monsters nor beasts, they were children. Can't we bear to recognise that?

beetroot · 28/11/2004 15:02

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aloha · 28/11/2004 15:13

As I said, I don't know how I would feel. I hope I never found out, and I also hope that if I had the awful misfortune to have something so terrrible to happen to me or mine that I wouldn't spend the rest of my life consumed with hatred. What a truly dreadful life that would be.
There have been many other child killers, who were adults, who killed with cruelty and sadism, who have been released, but don't occupy such a prominent position in our hierarchy of evil. I don't think it is such a bizarre question to ask why we think children are MORE culpable and MORE evil than adults.
I honestly don't think it is 'dreadful' to ask this question either. I don't criticise James's mother. Her life is clearly intolerable and for her the sadness will never end.

JoolsToo · 28/11/2004 15:16

to say a 10 year old doesn't know that its wrong to:

1 keep a childs eyes open so paint can be poured into them and
2 throw bricks at a 2 year old and then when he gets up from that brick throw another so he falls down and then
3. lay them across a railway track

is utter crap! - they are only 10 - oh well thats all right then - do your worst boys - you're only 10!

Jamie Bulger was only 2 - TWO FGS!!!

I hope you're all as forgiving if god forbid it happens to your child.

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